Improve Marketplace Review & Rating - make it like Ebay :)
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Fullperm Alpha
As we all know, the Marketplace review and rating system is outdated and needs an overhaul. Many sellers complain about unfair reviews, and buyers need better incentives to leave feedback at all. Many products are purchased without receiving any reviews. Generally, negative reviews are more likely to be submitted and can even be posted by competitors with baseless reasons.
Having been an eBay PowerSeller for a long time, I would like to make the following suggestions:
* Direct Rating for Sellers and Products: Sellers should be rated directly along with the product. While the product itself gets rated separately, the seller’s performance should also be visible in their personal sales history with dedicated pages.
* Buyer Rating System: Buyers should also be rated in a similar manner. The advantages are manifold: buyers will have more incentive to make purchases, unjustified negative reviews will decrease, and communication between buyers and sellers will improve to resolve issues. Buyers also enjoy accumulating good ratings themselves.
* Review Reminders: The marketplace should actively remind users that they can and should leave reviews.
This system works excellently on eBay and has the advantage of reducing negative reviews while generating more purchases and sales. This is also in Linden Lab’s best interest. With this improvements you will get a more friendly & more active Secondlife marketplace.
Best Regards.
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Sntax
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Issue tracked. We have no estimate when it may be implemented. Please see future updates here.
Fullperm Alpha
bonnairebelle Resident Good you bring this up - you see on your own that the review & rating system has enough place for improvements ...
Just to mention it: i have bought a lot during years and NEVER made a single feedback, because the system did not motivate for doing so.
As a good resident i have thought to do this finally - 2 months ago on around 100 pages in my order history (was starting this but was impossible to finish it with all items i have bought in the past).
Would have been better i would have got a reminder from the marketplace to do that in time - like Ebay does it too ...
Even if i would like to correct this review now i would not know now which one it is and where the others are.
If links should not be possible in reviews the marketplace system should deny to accept such a review.
Thanks again you have pointed to that good example ! :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn
I totally favour this suggestion. Indeed, I could have written it! LOL
The only thing that I would add is: "stop reinventing the wheel". It's really, really, really not worth it. You can set a webshop up in no time using off-the-shelf software — such as WooCommerce for WordPress. Then it's just getting a nice template, integrate everything with your internal systems, and done. That's it.
I had a proof of concept in September 2004, hacked very quickly around a WordPress template. It worked back then, and it could have been a huge success — if I hadn't been beaten by Apotheus Silverman, who had launched SLexchange.com just about the same time, and did everything from scratch.
Allegedly, it's still the exact same website engine, made by Apotheus (a tribute to his coding ability!) — because if it isn't, it surely looks exactly like it, to the tiniest detail (and flaw!)
I mean, LL, your biggest issue will
not
be the marketplace site per se
. In 2024, that's trivial to do (or, rather, to grab something already done and just tweak it). It's also not the flawless integration with the inventory delivery inside the SL Grid. You have already
done that, too. No, your only issue is transferring all the content from the current database to the new one without losing a single transaction line
. That, indeed, is the challenge, and I don't envy you guys on that.But let's be honest: cool, Apotheus' software lasted two decades. Fantastic. How many more decades do you expect it to continue to work? Do you want to go the route of all those bank and insurance company software which are still written in COBOL?...
Fullperm Alpha
Gwyneth Llewelyn I would agree to use a common engine for the marketplace, even though we unfortunately can not expect this at the moment.
Thank you for comment Gwyneth. 5 stars :)
Oil Supply
"* Buyer Rating System"
I kind of like this idea. When I read reviews, I look at the rating and then the text. I'm not swayed by vague text--in fact, I ignore the review. On reviews that are detailed, if its informative and relevant, then its a "good" review.
However, other buyers should be rating reviews as to whether or not they are helpful. It can still be abused but less likely because someone has to convince many people to brigade a review.
Display the results next to the reviewers name along with the total like "Helpful (10), Unhelpful (5), No review (20) or something like that.
Devilgrey Resident
Oil Supply I think Amazon just lets you rate individual reviews themselves which can suffice too instead of giving reviewers ratings. So mostly helpful reviews can be pushed higher than ones mostly rated unhelpful.
Devilgrey Resident
Mercari has a reveiw system where both the seller and buyer must review each other within 3 days after the customer receives the package. the customer must submit a review first then the seller does. but if the customer fails to submit a review within 3 days, mercari just automatically gives the seller/buyer 5 stars saying "transaction complete. review was automated by mercari".
Addition to comment 8/13/24:
Following mercari’s review system makes it where only actual customers of a product can leave reviews. And for happy customers that forget to write reviews, a automated review will get published without effort on their part. seller’s would get more positive reviews without needing to beg customers for them. It will also create more balance for products that only have negative review. If I personally saw a product with lots of automated positive reviews and only 1 negative, I’d assume most ppl had no issues with the item.
Fullperm Alpha
Devilgrey Resident This is even better than my own suggestion.
Besides Mercari, I know that Aliexpress is also doing this.
Automatically enforcing a 5-star review within 3 days would make a reminder unnecessary, and my other points would also become irrelevant for the time being. A buyer not leaving a review can be treated as a satisfied customer.
Adding this single feature would restore balance in the marketplace, and we would also receive more reviews.
Another advantage is that the implementation effort for this suggestion is very low.
If someone made this a separate suggestion in the feedback portal, I would upvote it.
5 stars for this comment !
I also support the suggestion made by Aglaia Resident and Tiffy Vella in this thread that demos should not be rated and should be included directly in the listing of the final product, as they do not need a separate listing, in my opinion.
As a side note:
Mercari is very strong in Latin America and Spain (Europe). It's becoming a serious competitor to eBay.
Devilgrey Resident
Fullperm Alpha personally for secondlife I think giving customers 3-7 days to rate an item before a automated review gets submitted would be best. Also I’d prefer not having to review customers individually either. you can make so many sales on sl than mercari that it’d be overwhelming. I can go weeks without checking sl.
Citrine Fhang
Devilgrey Resident Sorry, but I can't say I support your idea. I love leaving reviews on the marketplace, and sometimes I'll go back to things I may have purchased a year or more ago to give said review. I'd be rather miffed if some automated system just did the rating for me - especially if it is something that I don't think deserves a full five stars, but I didn't have the time, energy, or the right words to explain exactly why it wasn't completely satisfactory.
I'd rather a product receive no review from me than a fake five stars, lest I be compelled to go and leave 4 stars on something that didn't quite tickle my fancy when I know it is a matter of my own personal bias.
Devilgrey Resident
Citrine Fhang tbh mercari's rating system may not work for sl since mercari is a secondhand/used item marketplace. it's just similar enough to ebay that i i just thought i'd mention it here.
Marina Ramer
Agree on this one, a better system its needed for many years now. MP it seems for the last 15 years that is more virtual secrets than any else on the reviews a way for haters to leave their nasty comments and hate which only demoralize designers.
Zandrae Nova
As an autism spectrumy person and someone who is chronically ill, I don't particularly like the idea of people rating me with one star because I'm not bubbly or because I'm sick for a few days and don't respond to a customer service request within an hour.
Robotshaz Resident
Zandrae Nova I got autism too and every time I see an email that someone has left me a review it makes me anxious every time. Last time I had a review I waited hours until I finally pulled myself to look at it. I know reviews are important encase there's problems that need fixing or if a customer happy. Though I just wish customers would just message me directly sometimes or leave me a notecard instead. I just hate it so much though when you get 1 star review on an item and customer lies about the product not working when things have been tested fully. Had a girl once she rated 1 star on a tattoo i had spent hours drawing and i was even wearing Maitreya in the product ad picture. The girl who left me a review she rated it 1 star literally 2 minutes after buying the set and said none of the layers worked on maitreya. when they did work.. I think the girl just didn't know how to enable BOM.
sprightlysprite Resident
Seems to me like the solution to all of these problems is more user reviews. To get more user reviews, the clear answer is to make it easier and more obvious how to leave a review. Right now, as far as I can tell, the only way to leave a review is to go to your account page, find the item in your purchase history, and then click the review link from there. No wonder no one does it! Every other commerce site I'm aware of with reviews solicits reviews in much more obvious places. At the very least, buyers who visit the product page again, who ALREADY see a banner informing them they already purchased the product, should see a link to review it.
Robotshaz Resident
also want to add in. If the rating star system isn't completely removed due to some people still liking the rating system for whatever reason. I still think it would be good if us creators and people selling could at least have the option to disable the rating system if we don't want our products to be rated. Honestly some people will be lying about things not working or they just rate 1 star just to be nasty. Had it happen to me before with 1 girl who I had blocked on twitter because she was being nasty towards me... she then went and started rating a lot of my demos and gifts 1 star on the secondlife marketplace just to be spiteful. Or sometimes you get a bad review due to a customer not knowing how to use stuff properly and then they need more guidance and help. So yes I think definitely think about at least giving us creators the option to disable that star rating system because it does upset people when they get a random 1 star review and they are not at fault.
sprightlysprite Resident
Robotshaz Resident If this were implemented, there should be a clear warning on those product pages for sellers who choose to conceal their dissatisfied customers.
Robotshaz Resident
sprightlysprite Resident well i suppose the stars could be concealed but the comments would still remain I feel. so as long as people read the comments on the reviews I don't think everything would be concealed as such. unless the negative comments as well gets removed.
sprightlysprite Resident
Robotshaz Resident Making it harder to use ratings is just a lightweight version of concealing them. Buyers can and do sort by rating. It's not perfect, and I understand sellers posting here don't WANT them to, but that isn't a reason to help sellers prevent buyers from focusing on products with better reviews. It is not the goal of SL to make it easier for people to sel things regardless of unsatisfied customers, and frankly, the disdain I've seen expressed here for buyers who are not satisfied would make me worry about buying from some of those people. Not that there aren't valid concerns, and yeah, some people are just in a bad mood when they write a review and it may not (or it may) be the seller's fault... but it sounds like some people here just don't think negative reviews should happen. That's wrong.
I like the focus here on getting more reviews, instead. Reducing the friction for reviewing a product and finding opportunities to remind satisfied buyers to post more reviews are MUCH better answers than helping sellers conceal the fact that they have unsatisfied customers.
Robotshaz Resident
sprightlysprite Resident I honestly don't mind comments and people giving me a bit of criticism if something isn't working or if something needs improvement. I just don't like how some people they rate 1 star and they leave the most vague comments. I just feel like if there's a problem with a product it would be best if customers would try to contact creators first. I don't mind comments but just the stars need to be abolished in my opinion. The star system just isn't necessary and there's so many people that abuse it and just rate 1 star on stuff just for the sake of it. I had 1 girl before leaving 1 star reviews on my demos and gifts just for the sake of it to try and get back at me because I had blocked her because she was being nasty towards me. So yes there's people that abuse the review system and leave 1 star just be nasty and to try and put others off.
sprightlysprite Resident
Robotshaz Resident Yeah, absolutely people should contact support before leaving a negative review if it's the kind of thing support can help with, like a product that seems to not work. It might even be worth some encouragement in this direction; e.g., if you select less than 3 stars for an item, and the creator is active in SL, the user could be prompted wherther they really want to leave a review, or contact support instead. But there are also cases where something just looks terrible, and there's no point contacting support to ask for help when the creator just made something that looks bad.
That said, just because you don't think someone SHOULD be unhappy doesn't mean they aren't unhappy, and if your customers are unhappy, as a buyer, that's something I want to know, even (or ESPECIALLY) if you as the creator have decided they are just an idiot and are ranting about and insulting them in feedback threads. Hiding that by removing star ratings on reviews would be a terrible idea.
In the end, reviews and ratings are useful data. Buyers recognize that some of those reviews are unreliable. Some of them are purchased or even just outright alts of the creator made only to buy their own product and leave positive reviews. Others are people acting in bad faith, or even reviewing honestly but they were just in a bad mood that day and saw things in a negative light. But we all make decisions every day based on unreliable information, and that doesn't mean the information should be taken away.
Robotshaz Resident
I feel like getting rid of the star system altogether would make reviews more interesting and prevent trolls and some people from abusing the review system. Might even encourage some customers to consider contacting creators first if there's any problems with products too. I've had some 1 star reviews myself in the past and each time they have been very vague reviews that are just not helpful and some were even lying about things not working when they did. I'm hearing quite often that many creators are also dealing with a lot of unfair reviews of which some just don't make sense at all. There's some customers just leaving 1 star reviews just to be spiteful as well.
Certified Lunasea
Let me provide the TL;DR; statement first:
While I understand and can sympathize with the intentions of this proposal I don't believe it would help at all. In fact I think it might invite more issues given certain parts of it.
With that said, here are the issues I have with each point raised in this proposal:
Direct ratings for sellers:
The need for this does not exist in the Second Life Marketplace because when payment is rendered the transaction is completed by the system itself with no need for further human interaction or interference. Should something go wrong the buyer has the ability to contact the seller and/or Linden Lab for it to be rectified.
Direct ratings for products:
This is already the function of the current review system, though it is often used to also point out any shortcomings in customer support for the particular product as well this should be expected as it is related to the product purchase and is valuable data for customers.
Buyer rating system:
This is not needed for the Second Life Marketplace for the exact same reasons as I pointed out in the direct ratings for sellers. Additionally having such a system in place would likely result in abusive retaliatory reviewing of buyers rather than for the purpose intended by this proposal.
Review reminders:
If implemented poorly these could conceivably count against a users offline message cap thus leading to more frustration than anything. If they are simply sent directly to the email for the customer then the message is likely to be just as ignored as those sent by those markets of real-world goods that keep getting brought up.
Comparison of Second Life Marketplace to eBay or Amazon:
The comparisons made within this feedback discussion of the Second Life Marketplace to online markets of real-world goods (such as eBay or Amazon) are comparing apples to oranges largely due to the nature of the goods being sold, the environment in which they are intended to be distributed within, the level of automation present, and the differences in the dispute resolution methods available to them.
Marketplaces such as eBay and Amazon have the ability to do things that are simply not needed to be done on the Second Life Marketplace, such as refunding a customer if the product is never delivered, not as described within the product listing, or is dead on arrival. That capability comes at a cost as due to the abuse potential of such capabilities those markets have a tangible need for the seller to be able to review the buyers of their wares as well. Such is not the case for the Second Life Marketplace due in large part to the automated nature of the Second Life Marketplace, customer completes the purchase and the system fulfills the order automatically with no further input (or potential interference) from any party to the transaction of any sort needed.
The online marketplaces that sell real-world goods and services are targeted at real-world audiences using real-world currencies for both incoming and outgoing payments whereas the Second Life Marketplace targets only the users of Second Life and provides goods only to avatars that reside within Second Life and provides outgoing payments only in the currency of Second Life. While I am well aware that L$ can be converted to many real-world currencies this is not a function of the Second Life Marketplace itself.
Fullperm Alpha
Certified Lunasea With respect: Fundamental errors in reasoning hidden behind a long text will not help to gain approval.
I prefer quality over quantity.
Certified Lunasea
Fullperm Alpha That's why there is a TL;DR; section at the top, for those that can't be asked to read or understand the reasoning presented below that point.
If you believe that there are logical errors in my argument then by all means let us discuss it further, but to do so you will have to address what points you feel are in error, otherwise there is not much point in your statement as it brings nothing further to the discussion.
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