IMs to Email is severely insufficient
tracked
Eren Padar
Missing events because of insufficient group notice allowance is very annoying.
UPDATE to this OP: The problem is two-fold.
1) LL cuts off group notices at a certain number. This is bad for customers, for groups trying to hold events, and ultimately for Linden Lab (which relies on those groups for income).
2) Group Notices are not being consistently sent out by email. This failure caused me to miss two of my favorite events of the year. The notices were sent out, but never appeared in my email. I have an email filter specially designed to never stop an LL email, and I do receive most group notices.
The two events which did not reach me were held by Raglan Shire: Golden Bow Archery Contest and Stabby Stabby event. There's no way to know how many notices are not reaching me. Initial guess: SL's email system isn't functioning properly.
end of update
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Maestro Linden
Merged in a post:
Not getting notices
Phrynne Resident
Even though I have Receive Group Notices checked in the group info, I am not receiving the notices for Friends of Raglan Shire group.
Sabina Blakewell
My group has over 50k members, and after also having conducted my own testing with a fairly large pool of people, it seems an alarmingly low percentage of my group members receive my notices -- particularly if they're offline. Please make this a higher priority to resolve, as it affects the market and overall health of the game quite substantially
Eren Padar
THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM. (Yes, caps / yelling intentional). Seriously LL, TEEGLE... one of the top merchants of SL.. just had a tremendous Black Friday sale. They sent out a group notice on the 27th. I did not get that group notice via email... and neither did a lot of other members of the Teegle group. An undertermined number of customers were totally unaware of their biggest sale of the year, and they are not happy.
Seriously, this problem needs identified and fixed. I don't know of any other company that would allow a bug of this magnitude to remain uncorrected for so long. This is killing major events.
Maestro Linden
Merged in a post:
Notices are not being delivered to me from a specific group
VioletEcho Resident
I am set to receive group notices from
Group Key 3f071898-cb05-25f9-f3ff-b90473b56725
Most days I receive at least one of the notices but like today I did not receive any of them. Here are the notices sent out today, 10/28/24:
7 total at the time I did screen capture.
(I logged into the system at 17:48 and did this capture at around 18:00)
Page 1
Page 2
I only received 2 group notifications today total (10/28):
And here, those are received in email as well:
I went through all of my other groups' profiles and there were no other notices enabled or sent out for me to receive, only the three groups. The other two were received as described above.
Summary: none of the 7 notices from this group on 10/28 arrived to my account.
Also of note, there is a daily notice that goes out of the scheduled activities for the day and it's extremely rare that I receive this one. I cannot recall the last time I did.
Maestro Linden
Hi Violet, thanks for the report. I believe this issue is the same as reported at https://secondlife.canny.io/bug-reports/p/ims-to-email-is-severely-insufficient ; while that report was focused on offline email delivery of group notices, their actual problem was that the group notice wasn't being sent to them at all.
VioletEcho Resident
Maestro Linden Thank you. It sounds exactly like the same issue.
I'd like to add to my original report, I did a more diligent inspection and found one more notice on 10/28 that never reached me.
MAGIKA Hair - Group Key dbe920fb-e341-d570-d16f-d1cda6ea9878
-------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding the original group I reported on, there were 4 notices today and I only received 1 of them. It's been like this for several months, but I am not sure when it started.
Today I left the group and re-joined to see if that will make any difference tomorrow.
VioletEcho Resident
Leaving and re-joining had no effect. Received 0 from this group on 10/30 although they sent out 4.
I'm also missing 4 more notices from two other groups.
Advise if you want more information from me.
Kadah Coba
I tracked offline group notice failures for many years and unless anything has changed in the past couple years, it's far worse than stated here.
Using multiple test accounts in dozens of groups then manually comparing what offline notice actually get delivered to what was sent. I've the many years I checked the results were consistently bad, the average was quite high (I forget the value now) but the range of failure rates depending on account and group were terrible.
Some groups had offline delivery failures over 90% most weeks tested. Worse, one test account would have up to 100% failure much of the time.
Email and in viewer offline notice delivery are affected separately. They might have some relationship, but the failure rates were generally so high, >50%, I could not tell if there was a greater chance both with fail of one fails.
My raw data on this is somewhere in the archived jira.
No account I tested did not have failures. At best, one might only have missed a few. I only initially noticed when I got a part 2 notice and never the first then upon checking, found there was a lot more that didn't from that group, which only got worse as I monitored other groups and worse when checking on multiple accounts.
This is very much an example of an issue a user would not notice unless something prompted to that user to manually check.
Linn Darkwatch
Eren - I would note that a lot of Friends of Raglan notices are also posted in Small Talk, so it looks like you missed some crucial notices in that group too. So this isn't just a single group issue.
Eren Padar
Linn Darkwatch Thanks Linn. Yes you're right. I initially posted this to bring to LL's attention. They discovered the notices were sent, but verified for some unknown reason they were not sent to me. Then as I discussed this with others I found they were not receiving some notices too... from multiple groups. But by then I could no longer update the initial post and add that info.
So as you point out, this isn't a Raglan Shire problem (well it is, but it's everyone else's problem too) and it's not just my avatar experiencing this. Others say it's happening to them too. The problem is we can't really tell it's happening until we finally hear of an event that we've already missed or (like the Talent Show) it's too late to enter. : (
Thanks for pointing that out. It needed mentioned. It is affecting multiple groups.
Eren Padar
This problem is continuing and getting worse. I just got a notice today of yet another MAJOR event I have participated in every year: the Dinkie Talent Show. This event takes place in two days (leaving me no time to register or prepare)... and today was the first notice I received. Scuse me for the emphasis, but THIS NEEDS FIXED YESTERDAY !!! (Note: friends have verified similar experience.)
Let's be frank: this is the kind of problem that costs SL members. If people regularly miss important events because of SL issues... they may look for less-frustrating, more reliable activities. Correct?
So please, find out what's causing this problem and FIX IT. Cos at this point I'm pretty upset over this one. I've performed at that Talent show every year since it started. But this time I won't do so because of some bug that LL has already verified is on SL's end.
PLEASE hunt this down and FIX IT.
Maestro Linden
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Caleb Linden
Thanks again for the clarifications Eren and Sasy. To summorize these are the things we know.
1) I do receive group notices by email, which means my email system isn't broken. Gmail is pretty reliable.
2) I only became aware of this when Raglan announced the winners of two major events that I hadn't been notified were taking place.
3) When I checked the Notices section of the group profile, the group notices were there.
4) When I checked back emails and trash, the notices weren't there.
The next step would be to get details of the notices in question, or get repro steps from the reporter (like "Have alt send 10 group notices while offline within a given time interval, observe that only the first 8 of the notices are delivered")
To find notice email failure events, we need the following
- timestamp the notice was sent
- which region the notice was sent from
- name of the agent sending the notice
- title of the notice
- whether anybody else in the group successfully received the notice as an email
- whether the email receiving account is under your name or another account name
- if possible add screenshot of the particular notice
Eren Padar
Caleb Linden I will with respect mention again: I am glad to help where warranted... but the things you mention are neither my duty nor responsibility. I don't work for Linden lab.
I worked for 35 years as a corporate computer consultant. The things you're asking for above are the kind of thing standard computer companies would either test themselves... or call in a professional consulting firm and pay considerable fees to track down. A company doesn't lay this at the doorstep of their customers.
First, no group is going to allow me to send out multipled notices to "test" and see if they are received. I have already stated I do receive group notices-- just obviously not all of them.
Linden lab can check the date and timestamps themselves. Check the Raglan Shire notices list and look for "Golden Bow Archery" and "Stabby Stabby". They sent out more than one group notice for each; I received none. Linden Lab has already checked this problem and verified it exists. No need for further data from customers. Time to do some real debugging.
Again Caleb, I am answering with respectful intention, but to illustrate the division of responsibility when it comes to handling system bugs. The customer reports the bugs. The company tracks them down and fixes them. If LL were a not-for-profit company that would be a different thing, but the company pulls in millions a month. Surely it can invest in some professional troubleshooters.
Caleb Linden
Eren Padar: Understood. We do want to look into this issue and it sounds like it's occurring every day. Please, post the information when the group notice email is missing again. In the meantime, we are digging through the previous posts from the Friends of Raglan Shire group entitled "Golden Bow Archery" and "Stabby Stabby"
Maestro Linden
Eren Padar: Thank you for leaving specific details about a incident of this issue. In the absence of 'steps to reproduce' (such as in your report), we rely on this information.
I was able to find a notice titled "Golden Bow Contest Starts Noon" sent to the "Friends of Raglan Shire" group at 2024-09-15 11:30 PDT. While the notice sender's sim sent the notice to many other group members, it neglected to send the notice to you for some reason. The 'Everybody' role in this group includes the 'receive group notices' ability, so the sim should have attempted to send the notice to all members who have opted into receiving notices (as you did).
Eren Padar
Caleb Linden I will do so Caleb. Of course the trick is to tell when a message is missing. If these hadn't been two major events with follow-up "winning scores" Group notices, I wouldn't have known even at this time. But I'll do me best. ; )
Eren Padar
Maestro Linden Thank you Maestro. I realize I was remiss in not mentioning the precise notices that were missing-- which was information vital to you finding the issue. My bad. I am pleased that the records show the notice wasn't sent to me. Perhaps that's the first step needed in tracking the source of the issue. Well-done all.
Eren Padar
Caleb Linden I know this is a LOTTA months late (it's easy to lose track of Feedback threads), but I do wanna emphasize this isn't Raglan Shire's fault. No paw pointing here, nope nope. This is happening to numerous people across numerous groups. This is definitely a server problem... and to this date (Aug 4 2025) I don't know if it's been fixed. The main reason I don't know is because since mid-March I've been running my little dwagon tail off (like most merchants) doing Fantasy Faire, Sci Fi Con, Relay for Life Festival, SLB22, Camp Limbo, and countless other events that all seem to hit one right after another. Everything's been so jumbled I don't think I'd know I missed an event even if I did. ;D
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