Make physics work over sim borders
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KarlRichard Resident
Optically you can see from a region to the next one - the sim border is invisible. Physically though the next region does not exist until you travel over the border between the recent region and the next one.
Let's suppose you are traveling by boat. If you hit a pier in a region, your boat is bounced back. But if you hit a pier located on the next region reaching until the region's edge, your boat first travels over the sim border and suddenly gets caught in the pier bouncing like crazy.
Suggestion: the physics engine of each region should also load (render?) the physical shapes of the neighbor regions borders, which are pointed to the region, so a vehicle is bounced back and does not enter the next region where it is blocked by some object.
Advantage: physical experience would be far more natural, collisions on sim borders would not be special.
Since it is very common to build right until the sim borders, this is issue not a trifle at all imo.
Vessels that have a damage system responsive to collisions (to make sailing more challenging) use to sink immediately when hitting these sim edge builds (since being caught on an object causes plenty of collisions in a very short time), while they would only take some damage while hitting the same build from the other side.
This particularly is annoying, if there is a very tiny or even invisible object on the sim border, so you have no chance to recognize it before your ship suddenly sinks for no obvious reason.
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girlymind Resident
Please consider a solution LL!
ZADACK Zifer
The transitions from one land to another are still problematic. Sometimes the objects in the next land don't load, and when you enter, you're already right in front of a wall.
Beatrice Voxel
I think the main issue to be solved here is "Why don't the sim region instances share data about what is across the border?"
If something is rezzed in Sim A, it should be also 'rezzed' as an off-sim imposter object in adjoining Sim B, and vice versa. As it crosses the demarc between sims A and B, the role switches, now it's an object within Sim B's region, and an offsim imposter in Sim A. As long as physics rules apply, these offsim objects can be pared down - lower LOD, B-P textures instead of PBR, whatever's needed to make the load of them being 'present' more efficient. This would also mean that structures, reefs, buoys, and other fixed objects could also be navigated while crossing a sim border, because the sim you're moving from can tell your viewer all about them before you reach them.
And yes, this would mean that Mainland sims would have to be able to, in addition to their own prim load, also accomodate all of the "imposter prims" from 8 other sims, the four in the cardinal directions as well as the diagonals. That would be the computing challenge that needs to be overcome for this to work. I'm thinking that the sim crossing handoff might actually be more efficient than now, as all of the objects that the viewer needs to be told are 'there' would already be loaded, and it's just a matter of toggling the imposter bit from 1 to 0 and vice versa on whatever applies, depending on which two regions are involved.
KarlRichard Resident
Beatrice Voxel Sims share a lot of data already, but the physics engine is entirely excuded so far.
Since the size of physical things is limited to the max link distance, there is no need to load the entire neighbour regions objects. I'd suggest the distance of 34m, like the llGetObjectDetails command uses already.
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KarlRichard Resident
SL Feedback Signal Linden Several users posted workarounds to get around the mentioned issue. Workarounds though can never supply the same user experience like an actual fix, and they usually cost far more resources.
Additionally workarounds are not always feasible and often come with huge extra troubles. For instance, if I'd implement a workaround like crossing the sim border in phantom mode (to scan for potential collisions and if any, to move back to the former sim, simulating the bouncing), the ship could not take cannon damage either in that moment. So I'd have to make the ray casts to detect phantom objects, too, forcing me to detect for more than only one hit, since there could be other phantom objects (like animated waves for instance) in the line the cannon shoots, which have to be skipped to find a ship that eventually could be hit. And this would even require an extra script, since the cannon script is full already, because it also includes another workaround yet (to make ray casts work over sim borders, which so far they don't naturally in SL - most probably due to the very same physics issue). Extra scripts always have the problem to share all the required variables, which needs extra implementations. The sharing costs extra resources via link messages or linkset data.
From a certain level of complexity workarounds can kill a project or at least force the reduction of complexity/features to a lower level. Every single step of this whole string of extra implementations does not only cost extra resources causing extra lag, but is also a potential source of more issues. In our case I'd rather remove the collision damage entirely from our ships (which unfortunately would remove the extra challenge of navigating safely) than open the described box of Pandora.
Thus for SL's sake this fix is essential imo, if natural user experiences and sophisticated gaming challenges shall be possible on this platform. As LL fortunately is planning to support game controller input yet, I am hopeful that the fix of the physics gap won't be neglected either.
Tako Pancake
Please improve the SIM transitions to be as smooth as possible. Aircraft operations are more noticeably affected. This is where Second Life falls short compared to other metaverses. Please improve these shortcomings and transform it into a more amazing virtual space.
DevinKnights84 Resident
suggestion: maintain control of your vehicle
karliekarliekarlie Resident
Same case for air travel.
animats Resident
Yes, physics at region edges is terrible. Here are some useful workarounds.
Region crossings actually trigger 1 meter past the edge of the region. Obstacles within 1m of the edge will not be detected properly by objects entering. So don't build obstacles that close to the edge. Allow 2 or 3 meters of safety zone at region boundaries.
If you have an important obstacle near a sim edge, make it a prim or convex hull object. Those are solid volumes for physics purposes, and if something ends up inside one, it will be pushed out. Mesh objects with physics other than convex hull or prim have collisions only at the surface. You can get stuck inside. People who build terrain objects should be aware of this. You can teleport in and be stuck underground. You can get stuck underground if such objects are near a sim edge and you enter there. Use convex hulls and teleport landing points to avoid this problem.
Lack of support objects at region crossings is a problem. There are places where you can fall through roads or bridges. Most bad spots on Linden roads have been reported and fixed, but a few remain. There are some in the Snowlands, and some in costal Zindra.
My motorcycles have a workaround for this. Once they pass a sim edge, and are in that 1m range before the next region picks up, they start floating and won't fall. As soon as the region crossing triggers, they revert to normal ground contact. This gets them across badly built road crossings without problems.
KarlRichard Resident
animats Resident Some folks seem to be so fond and proud of their workarounds that they never ever would support an actual solution nor the advancement of SL. ;)
AlettaMondragon Resident
KarlRichard Resident Watercraft have to detect the water level in order to be able to look like they are on the water while there is no actual water physics and displacement in SL, either, so sailing in SL is a workaround to begin with. Why don't make water physics first?
animats Resident
I'm not fond of them. But after six years of complaining about region crossing problems, it's clear that it's beyond the ability of Linden Lab to truly fix them.
KarlRichard Resident
animats Resident I understand your frustration, but I disagree. They are capable and did improve the sim crossings a lot already. Crashing has become far less probable since then!
Development is man hour consuming. A company has to set priorities where to invest them first. Maybe sim crossing fixes did not get as many votes as things like PBR etc. But that has been completed now, so you might help with your vote to make it a priority now.
Tech Robonaught
When I had adjoining sims Id just duplicate the dock on the other side of the border and move the root prim - then I had same same physics on both sides - same with roads - in other observations, Roadcraft 2 Also uses Havock and it can do amazing things.
KarlRichard Resident
Tech Robonaught Toothless Draegonne already mentioned that. It is not a solution of the actual physics issue, but a workaround which is only feasible for estate owners. On all the mainland this won't work.
steph Arnott
Can not be done, it could be if SL went to cloud computation but you be paying ni on $200 a month which is why LL put that idea on the back burner. Maybe in ten years.
Soap Frenzy
steph Arnott The simulators are already hosted on AWS and have been since the beginning of 2021
steph Arnott
Soap Frenzy, yes, its a third party server provider which charges for usage, LL pay the for the basics which is not what I was refering to. LL has already done a cost analysis for the resources it would need and decided to put it on hold until cost come down because SL users are not going to pay for it through monthly subscriptions.
Tech Robonaught
steph Arnott Sim Status website shows LL nets about 3 million USD a month just off land tiers alone ... you telling me they can only afford basic cloud hosting ... pffft. Not buying that.
steph Arnott
Tech Robonaught, LL does not, not even gross, why post nonsense when you can read the companies accounts given to the tax offices?
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