brodiac90 Resident You obviously don't shop for deco/landscaping much, go to many live performances, or any number of innocuous things that end up hosted on adult rated land and that's fine, that's your reality, but you don't speak for all child avatars. I know many that simply assume some small non-human forms to go to those places. The issue is when you forget you have that open and get shoved to a hub beyond your control. LL overcomplicated this in claims to "protect" child avatars, but the reality was, as long as they weren't doing anything inappropriate nothing was reportable, same as now stands for moderate rated land. It protects nobody any more effectively than it already did, but we're past that point, and I still hold hubs shouldn't exist on adult land, period. (And no I am not advocating a region on an adult continent be G or M)

Spooky Pumpkins That's not a "system" that's a setting which as I've pointed out is flawed considering the amount of non adult shops that insist on being on adult land mostly for the cheaper rent. It's not as black and white as people have tried to make it out to be, and it's not a matter of child avatars purposefully accessing adult land either, it's 100% about the avatar and several have an alternate form (no, not a separate adult avatar) they use specifically for shopping in those places. Your response is very shortsighted and uninformed.

Melody OwO By definition, using that setting in fact a system.

sys·tem

/ˈsistəm/

noun

1.

a set of things working together as parts of a mechanism or an interconnecting network.

You can insult me all you like. Perhaps you should change your own viewpoint on this as it seems to be extremely self centered to want to change the entire grid to fit your needs.

Spooky Pumpkins It's not self centered, it's usually only a segment of the population that bother to speak up. Where exactly did I insult you? Regardless, this is nowhere near the limited view you believe it is.

Melody OwO

The insult?

"Your response is very shortsighted and uninformed."

I guess 17 years in SL makes me uninformed. But pop off.

Spooky Pumpkins If you don't directly interact with those affected by the changes they implemented, yes, you're out of the loop of why I'm asking what I am. That wasn't insulting you... but whatever gives you motivation to be rude.

Spooky Pumpkins. When the new rules came out, quite a few people who use child avatars commented on the forums. They had no problem switching off Adult in preferences. Some said they've always had Adult off. It's an easy solution and i didn't see anyone shouting for no adult hubs. They know the majority of users aren't covered by the ban on child avatars on Adult land.

Rowan Amore You're ignoring a lot of guidance direct from LL which is exactly what I was describing. That counters your "just turn adult off" you've been pushing this whole time. The whole case I'm making is all it takes is one time of being shoved to a hub with adult enabled, the wrong person wanting a chance to report. At the very least give options about what type of hub you'd be shoved to, but that's far more involved than merely keeping all of them to moderate and having a few as G for those who only have G enabled.

Melody OwO. And as I have already mentioned, LL knows when someone is inadvertently logged into an Adult hub while in a child avatar IF someone should report you. They can see you did not TP there voluntarily and that you left immediately. I can almost guarantee they would also suggest you limit your preferences to G and M to avoid any issue in the future.

You are looking for a problem which already has a solution.

Adult hubs are on adult continents. Adult land can not be adjacent to G or M land which is why Adult mainland is nowhere near any other mainland. You cannot put an M rated hub on Zindra or Horizons.

As to your reply from LL about going to an adult venue...since you have to switch avatars, make a habit of switching maturity preferences, also. Their reply does not address switching preferences just avatars.

Rowan Amore The switching preferences has NEVER been suggested from them, that's the whole thing. It's only you and Spooky that have been pushing that. Show me anywhere guidance from LL that accounts which house child avatars should only ever have G and M areas enabled in access.

Melody OwO. It actually was brought up at the Community Roundtable i attended. Most people agreed that it was the easiest way to avoid accidentally TPing into an adult region such as a store or live music event. You'll be warned ahead of time so you can switch avatars. Works just as well for not being logged into an Adult hub.

Rowan Amore It doesn't prevent crashing with adult open before having the chance to change it, I know almost everyone having to do all of this getting back to their "real" selves is the priority, and the swap in settings can be forgotten. I still don't see a real reason any hubs have to be part of an adult continent. As pointed out with guidance from LL, if a child is inadvertently near a naked avatar, nothing will be done about it and it's not reportable. Moderate is more all encompassing and would eliminate any chance of a report in the first place. I'm not trying to upheave all of SL, just change the behavior of where they default dump you.

Rowan Amore It's one thing if you intend to visit an adult region, and do regularly for shopping and wear an alternative avatar to do so, but another entirely to then be dumped unintentionally in a safe hub that happens to be adult. There's literally no excuse to have any default dump location be adult, it's another thing entirely if you're intentionally seeking an adult destination.

Melody OwO. Exactly. By unchecking Adult in your preferences, you will not be dumped into an adult hub. It would be the same as being dumped into a General area as an adult avatar who happens to be naked. Reportable, if someone bothered to report it. It.is an issue which already has a solution.

Rowan Amore You completely just overlooked most of what I just said... Just because you don't want to continually toggle the ratings of access and can prepare to visit an area "attired" appropriately, doesn't mean you want to visit adult land beyond your control. Your suggestion is NOT a "solution." The continual toggling of things when visiting places within your desired control is completely different to being dumped somewhere you didn't intend to. Few if any intend to ever visit a safehub on purpose, why do adult ones exist in the first place? Do people purposefully seek these places out to do adult things?

Melody OwO. Since the only avatars which have been limited to non-adult regions are child avatars, if your account is used primarily as a child avatar, simply untick Adult in preferences. I'd think that would be a better solution than someone in fetish gear and exposed genitals being logged in at a general or moderate region with child avatars around if you took away the adult option.

Rowan Amore Moderate allows both to exist, no need for adult safehubs at all, and there's a number of shops that insist being on adult land despite not selling adult items. It's supposed to be a reasonable expectation to have to go into my settings every time I visit said shop on top of having to change my avatar vs just not having a default dump point that could get a significant portion of SL in trouble simply for setting foot there without the appropriate appearance? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that is, or how many would disagree with you on that? Also, there's no promise that said inappropriately clad person wouldn't still land at a non-adult safehub as things stand now. If that's your biggest concern, maybe the bigger one is being sure what you sign off wearing in case you end up standing next to a child avatar the next time you try to login somewhere unavailable.

Melody OwO. Since you already need to switch out of your child avatar to visit adult land, it actually makes perfect sense to NOT have the adult option checked.in preferences so you don't TP into an adult region unaware. This was discussed and many people who use child avatars do this for their own protection. I have General unticked so I am warned that I will heading to a General area and make sure I am wearing those BOM undies so i don't look naked before my mesh clothing arrives.

Often times, a person doesn't sign-off naked but is disconnected or logged out by an unexpected restart. They won't know until they log back in that the region is unavailable and find themselves naked at a hub.

Rowan Amore Oh yes, keep the screw down on people and the fear real. Even the most fastidious user could still have been shopping having access to adult still checked, having the need to get back to what they feel comfortable in (for the majority this isn't some costume like you attempt to marginalize it) and BAM they crash. Feeling frustrated they go to make some tea leaving it logging in only to in the worst case scenario come back and find themselves banned. You're completely out of touch on this issue and everything you're spouting off is based on hearsay ("I've heard...") vs someone who is living this day to day. It's people like yourself that have made people leave SL entirely!

Melody OwO Linden Lab is fully aware of where one has been logged in and why. If one should find themselves logged into an adult hub with a child avatar, LL can review the account to see what happened. That is what they have said. The review all reports. LL knows why people get logged into hubs. They will probably also tell you that to avoid being logged in where you don't feel comfortable, such as an adult hub, to uncheck Adult in preferences. It's really that simple.

These new rules were put in place for YOUR protection. Use what is available to protect yourself.

I live in Horizons which is Adult. There are 4 hubs there. Zindra also has many hubs. IIRC, there are no adult hubs on the other parts of mainland. With your proposal, the hubs on adult mainland would be changed to G or M. Does that seem like a good idea? You'd have people who only want General content in a sea of Adult activity.

Rowan Amore Whatever intentions were, it drove many away entirely, both those who played child avatars and not. I don't honestly care what continent the safehub is on, or what it's rated as a whole, they lost their right to keep things more homogeneous when they willy nilly said no more kids on adult land forcing many to have to currently flee where they called home and some for years.

The land rating system was never (originally) intended to dictate what was present, but what could be, and only fear mongers such as yourself said otherwise, not TOS. Anyone presenting as a child still had to verify a rl age to allow them to be there, and none were on adult land for sexual reasons that I knew (I know you're going to say "But I heard.." and that wasn't remotely the norm and the community as a whole would shun those bad actors), rather the land barons through shady practices offering better rates on adult rated land was more the cause than not. Some real estate companies would go so far as to say non-adult land doesn't sell.

With the drastic changes to that, concessions need to be made so that there is no fear of what one may login to. You still haven't given any solid reasoning as to why safehubs SHOULDN'T be adult, outside of the greater landmass they're a part of. Perhaps those should no longer be designated safehubs or automatically land people at those at all to quiet the fears of those like yourself. All I know is that a moderate rating is more than sufficient for your feared scenarios allowing both nudity and child avatars, the only thing it wouldn't allow is open public sex, which the vast majority of SL don't want anyway. The reality is, most tp away the second they realize they are there to the point that some don't realize they even still exist. Your NEED for an adult safehub hasn't been well articulated, and a vast majority if polled would say we don't need them.

Melody OwO You said, "You still haven't given any solid reasoning as to why safehubs SHOULDN'T be adult"

I'm all for safehubs being adult on adult continents. You're the one who needs to give solid reasoning for them NOT to be adult. That a small number of child avatars find it taxing to switch their preferences on and off to include or exclude Adult is not a good reason. The onus of not ending up in adult land, be it a hub or a shopping venue, is on the one NOT allowed in those regions. The vast majority of SL IS allowed on adult land so the option of an adult hub would be more important to more residents. If I, as an adult avatar, were suddenly NOT allowed in General regions, I'd uncheck General from my preferences therefore giving me a warning if I were about to TP to one or end up relogged into one. I don't NEED an adult hub but Adult continents will have Adult hubs as they should. That's just how it is.

Anyway, I'll just have to leave it at that. And I'm not a fear monger nor did I express a fear of nudity and child avatars. It just what can happen if there isn't an adult hub option. I have no problem with people choosing to use a child avatar.

Rowan Amore That you can't see past your close-mindedness and feel the need to comment on things that don't affect you couldn't be more obviously on display. You refuse to understand that people on a child avatar still want to shop for innocuous things like decor that many times end up being sold on adult rated land. You have no direct communication with any of the avatars you are affecting with your callous statements. There's obviously no getting you to actually see that, so with that, I won't be responding to any further comments from you on this matter.

Melody OwO Okie dokie but they would affect me as I live on an adult continent with adult hubs which is where I get logged in if my region is unavailable. That all adult hubs are on adult continents seems to have eluded you. Adult continents NEED adult hubs. Period. Have a good day.

Bavid Dailey I mean exactly what I said, if certain avatars are unable to visit adult rated regions without breaking TOS, no default landing zones should be adult. A report can be filed before they have a chance to change avatars, they may have left it logging in, expecting to land where they last were while they tend to things in the real world.