The age minimum for Second Life in total should be raised to 18.
under review
Ghost Cloud
It is no secret that most of the traffic and active userbase that Second Life experiences (and has historically experienced) is here for some form of NSFW content. Second Life has a long history of being an online digital space for kink and erotic RP, and much of the market is dominated by this fact.
I, to be frank, think the fact the TOS still allows underage users after all this time to be delusional and dangerous and is in denial of the common demographic of Second Life, and is therefore negligently allowing minors to enter harm's way.
No right minded parent would ever knowingly allow their child to sign up for Second Life, as the sexual nature of SL is not hard to find in a quick lookup online, and is impossible to avoid entirely even if relegated to only general sims. And if a minor is on Second Life, then to me that indicates they are not having their internet access actively monitored by a parent, and is
exactly the demographic of person we need to be protecting
. They are the most at risk from actual sexual predators and grooming online."but won't kids just lie and sign up anyway?" yes! they will. And it's why we need to raise the age limit so we can meaningfully enforce their removal from second life. Without that, a linden can just shrug their shoulders and tell them to go to a general sim, without any meaningful followup or enforcement. This enforcement of not allowing underage users is typical of other NSFW online communities, and I'm baffled as to why we are just knowingly allowing minors onto a platform no child or teen has any business of being on.
"but how will you even enforce it? i don't want to have to legally confirm my age" that is an entirely different topic altogether. this post is not about the ongoing internet-wide conversation about the methods of how to ensure strict online spaces for adults. this is about changing the baseline TOS. not having a way to confirm an age does not mean we have to just forgo a minimum age requirement baring minors altogether.
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Cynos3D Resident
No thanks, SL is hosted in the US and this opens it up to some seriously problematic legislature, especially under the current administration. I don't want to have to worry about my personally identifiable information potentially leaking due to the age verification process this would require in certain states. It's bad enough Discord's leak occured barely a month after the implementation of the UK's insanely invasive Online safety act, we don't need to encourage more of this and risk everyone's security.
I choose obfuscation and privacy online for my own safety, i will not surrender it for the privilege of being allowed to exist on a 256x256m square just because i risk encountering someone's butt PNG on a 3d model.
Devilgrey Resident
yeah really. last time i checked, 27 US states already have internet age-verification
cough
censoship cough
laws . I'm not giving out my ID just to access sites. the data leaks are already happening. big nope from me.Devilgrey Resident
hopefully LL doesnt mistake this for requiring age-verification (like id checks, face scans) which is proven to make the internet more unsafe for everyone, minors & adults alike.
Secret Foxtail
I joined Second Life's teen grid back in 2010, and their system I believe worked pretty well: Separate regions from the adult main grid (teens could not go to main grid and adults could not go to teen grid, etc), and specific education / organization related adult accounts where clearly labelled and had their ability to IM the under-18s disabled entirely. During my time on teen grid, I met a lot of cool people and learned a lot of cool things, and became more interested in technology and many fandoms and communities that I otherwise may not have found. I don't think younger people today should be denied the same opportunities, nor do I think it would be great for Second Life's growth and marketability.
Devilgrey Resident
Secret Foxtail yeah they probably should bring something like that back if they are going to continue to let minors create accounts.
jackiewallace Resident
That is not a matter of parental responsibility when a user blatantly violates, or doesn’t even bother to read, the terms of service they accepted at registration. That is not a matter of parental responsibility when a child downloads the application onto their mobile phone from Google Play, logs in, and then asks me, “What is this game?”
I find it particularly harmful that the Second Life app is available on Google Play and the App Store. The mobile app is meant to be a supplementary tool for those who normally use Second Life on a computer but are on the go and therefore can’t sit behind their PC. Since mobile technology inherently lacks active cooling solutions, the performance of these devices will never reach the level a computer can provide. I’d recommend everyone to go find an architect and ask them to design a house on their smartphone. There will be laughter, I guarantee it. LOL
I do not deny that parents hold responsibility for what they allow their children to “play.” Suppose they allowed their child to join Second Life. Suppose the child is restricted to visiting only General regions. Then how is it possible for them to see pornographic content on other users’ profiles? And why do we even allow onto the platform those users who, due to their intellectual limitations, are incapable of understanding where they are and what rules they must follow?
I continue to say that the core issue is not the age rating, but the mentality of the people. The issue is that Second Life is slowly beginning to resemble a sex simulator. I am not against sexuality—sex is a good thing—but everything has its place and its time. And this is something that must somehow be managed. We must find a way to handle it together.
And finally, I will share with you another example of how a clueless user is unable to grasp that the Firestorm New Resident Help Area is not a place for picking up girls, and that in a General region you do not approach an avatar with “hey sexy”—because that could very well be a 16-year-old child.
AlettaMondragon Resident
jackiewallace Resident Okay so now you finally said that the core issue is not the age rating but the mentality of the people.
Still, the question is if there is a hornet in your house that got in somehow, do you burn the house down or rather try to get the hornet out of it?
These "hey sexy" creeps would still be here just unable to get in contact with minors, but we would still have to put up with them all the time. Whereas if they're not here, everyone is safe from them regardless of age. Probably takes more work but that's why it's time to start working on it.
Stevoid Resident
This is parents responsibility not business or government. This is a nope from me.
ST33LDI9ITAL Resident
That would drastically effect SL's reach and marketability. It's really a parenting problem and responsibility. Don't let your kids on SL if it's an issue.
There are a lot of places in SL that are just fine for kids as well as teens.
But then ofcourse yea there are many places where the adults play.
Unfortunately just because of how SL works there's really no better way to moderate SL other than supervision...because you're bound to see some sort of adult natured material or interaction... even in G rated sims and such.
If that gets LL in hotwater.. well, yea that could be bad for the platform. But I don't think making it 18+ is the right answer.
I think having some sort of moderation management would help more. A way where parents could lock preferences and options, sims and regions, avatar restrictions, etc... Where the password for the management/account is different from the login or where 2fa auth is required for settings/management.
Cynos3D Resident
ST33LDI9ITAL ResidentMost adult venues are already pretty ACCUTELY vigilant of minors and actively take steps to moderate their communities and keep underaged users out.. I think most of us know the consequences of negligence in that department after the absolute clusterduck that is Roblox right now.
Now if they're lying about their age and repeatedly access places they shouldn't by circumventing the system, that's completely out of venue management's hands. It's up to the parents to ensure their kids aren't regularly accessing things they've no business to, it's not up to everyone else to own that responsability and bear the consequences of neglience.
Artesia Heartsong
While I wisely stay out of the age verification discussion, I'm still wondering why other avatars really
need
to know if an avatar has payment info on file. It's everyone's right to enjoy SL without paying for it - that doesn't turn them into griefers. The aspect of griefing should not be confused with the aspect of showing the world you have a registered payment method (which can be the credit card of your mother).Payment info on file is not equal to age verification, which by the way is solely an issue for LL and not for other avatars.
AlettaMondragon Resident
Artesia Heartsong This is only my opinion on it, but my observation is that SL is very transparent with a lot of data. Avatar keys, payment info, premium status, name changes (name changes can be tracked and even traced back if you really want to), region and parcel details, parcel access and ban lists, group member and ban lists, tracking "visitors" at places (which can easily be everyone everywhere), and the list could go on. External third party services use avatar keys for identification in their databases (personally I really don't like that), and especially with the survey bots collecting data and their operators publishing results online, as well as a notorious anti-bot system that collects all avatar keys, bot and real person alike, to mark each as a real person or a bot this means certain types of SL user data are not only stored on SL servers but third party servers as well.
Now the transparency and accessibility of data could be used for a lot of benevolent, innocent things, and shouldn't be a privacy concern in itself. However since it is possible, some people can, and do use it to do wrong, whether it is direct stalking, spamming, automated bans from places, or careless mishandling of data - as with everything else, people's responsibility cannot be trusted.
Whether this is an oversight on LL's part since the beginning or they intended this level of transparency I don't know, personally I think it was sheer naivety and I usually prefer transparency.
You're absolutely right that payment info or age verification isn't directly related to abusive behavior. In my experience in a lot of cases the most abusive people are quite well-off, with payment info, probably P+ membership, and I would be surprised if their RL identity wasn't known to LL. I think this age verification and payment info thing is like chasing ghosts while the real problems remain unaddressed.
Spidey Linden
marked this post as
under review
jackiewallace Resident
Anyone who supports allowing people under 18 to access Second Life - where the current age verification process does not require providing credit card data - is not only endangering children’s healthy development but also ignoring the serious risks tied to ageplay.
Lachesis Ethereal
Quite the opposite, I think everyone who advocates for blocking it for underage people just wants to live out their depravities without worrying about protecting children, which is incredibly selfish.
This request is equivalent to "I am spending most of my time in Berlin brothels, so Berlin should be inaccessible to minors".
Maybe spend some time in G-rated SL and don't judge the entire world by your personal experience, which is shaped by how YOU use it and by what kind of places, people and activities you seek.
Some of the many things in SL that are perfectly safe for everyone: countless art places, adventure sims, game meeting places, educational places, support networks.
jackiewallace Resident
Lachesis Ethereal First of all, here’s a little something to read. https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/digital-services-act_en
Under the current rules and terms of Second Life, I support the initiative, since sexually deviant users regularly harass residents even outside A-rated regions. Everything has its proper place and time. I believe the focus should not be on fighting with me, but on solving the problem. I still maintain that anyone without “Payment info on file” should not be allowed into Adult regions and should only be able to send and receive private messages once this requirement is met, or if they are on each other’s friend list.
Of course, even this way it is still impossible to protect users under 18 one hundred percent from sexual predators, since under current practice nothing happens to those who randomly message complete strangers and make them offers of sexual acts outside Adult regions. We’ve basically reached the point where venues operating in the busier General and Moderate regions should put up a sign that says: “If you are horny, don’t bother others.” LOL
Lachesis Ethereal
SL by itself has no "sexual nature". It really depends on the places you go, and sims have age ratings. I didn't get into contact with anything sexual for a year after joining.
Rathgrith027 Resident
Lachesis Ethereal As much as you and I know, I'd like you to convince 2/3rds of our userbase of that.
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