Add AVsitter Experience to Mainland Estate, as on Bellisseria
tracked
Qie Niangao
It's extremely convenient on Belli. For example, I recently noted that it can be used there to directly implement a request for automatic vehicle HUD attachment and detachment (https://feedback.secondlife.com/feature-requests/p/assosciate-a-hud-with-a-vehicle-and-have-it-automatically-attach-detach)
A related feedback item was denied (https://feedback.secondlife.com/ldpw/p/add-avsitter-experience-by-codeviolet-to-all-premium-sandbox-regions) but because it's activated on the Belli estate, I'm not seeing why it shouldn't be on Mainland as well.
This experience really amounts to a protocol that, unfortunately, isn't available without it, and the relevant source code is all open source—but that source must be compiled with the experience, and the experience must be enabled Estate-wide to be useful for things like vehicles, as it is on Belli. (Of course a parcel can always block Estate experiences if desired.)
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Qie Niangao
Why we can't have nice things
AlettaMondragon Resident
I think this is a terrible idea and any resident-created experience shouldn't be on the estate allow list in Bellisseria either, until the Experiences system gets an overhaul with the following detailed inspection and permissions features:
On the Experience Profile panel there should be two more buttons, "Inspect" and "Manage Permissions".
Inspect
: This should open a detailed list of what permissions the experience uses. Not the vague "teleport your avatar, play animations, add attachments" nonsense, but every permission listed thoroughly. Upon clicking on a dropdown on each listed permission, it should give the user a list of every location that uses this permission within this experience, and a list of objects using this permission in the experience, featuring the object creators and owners as well (like the Inspect Objects panel and Area Search). This would be important because not all of us like to give permissions to unknown people's unknown creations and objects at random places, some of which might do uncomfortable, unsettling things to us on purpose, and in general we don't know what exactly we consent to when we allow an experience.Manage Permissions
: Similarly to the Inspect feature, this would open the list of permissions used by the experience, and here you could allow or block each permission individually if you accepted the experience. This means if you allowed the experience itself because it is needed for a teleport portal, but it does other things too and you only want to allow the teleport feature, nothing else, you could block every other permission here. This is very important because right now if we can't make sure we can trust that the experience will only do what we expect it to do, the only way to make sure it won't do anything we don't want is to block the experience completely, and this breaks certain systems and we can't use them. With a detailed permission management panel for each experience, we could allow the experience and then only allow the permissions that we are comfortable with.These two buttons should be placed under the Allow, Forget and Block buttons for convenience and it would be probably the best to use separate floaters for the Inspect and Manage Permissions panels, but an integrated floater would look better and more modern. In that case the Experience Profile floater should be bigger, but as you can see in the screenshot, it is quite large with a lot of unused space in Firestorm by default anyway.
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AlettaMondragon Resident
Well I have it blocked along with almost every other experience that has ever asked me to accept it. I have 2 or 3 teleport experiences allowed and that's all. Any other experience request pops up -> block.
Qie Niangao
AlettaMondragon Resident Yes, and you can do that on Belli, same as on Mainland both now and as proposed. The difference is the Belli Estate doesn't block it, but Mainland does (by omission). And the problem isn't merely that this prevents individuals from using their attachments on Mainland protected land (which for travel-related attachments effectively blocks them altogether on Mainland), but the knock-on effect is that this prevents those attachments from being viable to develop in the first place, so nobody gets to use them anywhere.
Now, arguably, the Experience system should have been developed with a much more sophisticated permissions system, such that users could enable all Experiences to work grid-wide, subject only to
explicit
land-scope blocking by the landowner, rather than implicit by omission. But rather than throw the whole thing back into development, I'm requesting Mainland simply be made consistent with the successful settings on Belli.AlettaMondragon Resident
Qie Niangao No, what the experiences system would need is a detailed inspect feature where we could see what exactly each experience does, instead of the vague descriptions and "can teleport you, add attachments, blah blah" when it asks you to allow the experience. Then we would know if we could trust it or not.
Even RLV is better and safer because we can control its permissions individually through our relays. With an experience, the only way to make sure it won't do anything you don't want to is to block it.
As for vehicle and travel related attachments, I don't know what those could be that you need the AVSitter or any other experience for. I travel with vehicles very often and I never had to allow an experience for them. If you need to wear your cup of coffee, you can attach it from your inventory, same if you need a vehicle HUD or compass or whatever. I always wear my smartwatch HUD that shows me my elevation, heading, etc and I keep occasional vehicle HUDs (but I only use the Shergood HUDs and not even all the time while flying because they tend to disconnect anyway) both near the vehicles they belong to (in their inventory folders) and in my Accessories folder that is close to the top of my inventory. Absolutely no need for an experience for any of this and when I don't need the HUD or anything after a trip I don't even need to open my inventory, I can right click the item and detach it.
Really, where's the problem?
Qie Niangao
AlettaMondragon Resident I'm not going to fight with you over this. RLV doesn't work on all viewers, and not everyone enables it, so building a vehicle-based self-attaching HUD based on it is another dead letter: It's not done because it's not universally available to users—just the same as Mainland auto-attach by Experience, which works beautifully on Belli.
Why must Mainland be crippled (again) ? Except this time, the paranoid crippling spreads to the entire grid (including private estates) because nobody is going to build to a feature—especially a vehicle-related feature—that doesn't work on Mainland.
AlettaMondragon Resident
Qie Niangao It's not a fight, it is a public feedback forum and I have the right to oppose a suggestion and argue about it.
I explained in my comment on the other suggestion you linked (so you have presumably read the few comments on that one) what my problem is with vehicle HUDs that try to auto-attach from the vehicle's inventory. It really can't be that difficult and an inconvenience to have to add a vehicle HUD from your inventory and then right click and detach it when you don't need it on your screen. Whew, I do it all the time with HUDs. Big deal. Besides, if the reason for adding the AVSitter experience on the estate allow list in Bellisseria was to facilitate vehicle HUDs that use it, they would have certainly added it on Mainland, too. Much more likely they added it in Bellisseria because they have a lot of furniture, drink and cookie dispensers, etc in public parks and community centers that
might
use it - I don't know, I never checked if those use AVSitter and since I have the experience blocked, I get permission requests to add temp attachments from everything that uses AVSitter.I don't know what you call "paranoid crippling", but if you like to give permissions to something that you have no idea what it can do afterwards, feel free to, but don't try to force it upon others. I don't trust anything if I can't know what exactly it does. I would block LL's experiences as well if I could, and I blocked the few that let me block them.
Qie Niangao
AlettaMondragon Resident It's open source and has been for years. I know exactly what happens in AVsitter's [AV]prop and [AV]object scripts (they aren't very long).
I (and probably every scripter) would in theory welcome more specific Experience permissions requests, but in practice that would be cumbersome for the average user (as we know from using iOS and Android apps), and Experiences are trivial for the user to disable and don't include the only actually risky permission (debit), so it's very unlikely that Development would ever revisit it.
Oatmeal Linden
updated the status to
tracked
Hello Qie! Thanks for the request!
We can re-evaluate enabling one particular Resident-created experience for the mainland estate, however, we also have to also take into consideration how fair this addition would be to the entire creator community.
Currently, we are recommending allowing the experience in your own mainland parcel(s) to enable auto-attachments for yourself and others as permitted by your parcel settings. Perhaps this may become common for the various publicly accessible rest stops, fueling stations, and other roadside parcels maintained by the mainland community.
Qie Niangao
Oatmeal Linden So the reason that doesn't actually work (and I presume the reason the experience was enabled at the Estate level on Belli) is that the Experience is "land scope" (as is true of almost all resident-created Experiences), so although such a HUD can be
attached
on an individual parcel, it will immediately detach upon entering any land where the Experience hasn't been enabled—which kind of defeats the point if it detaches on protected water, roads, or rail.