Add Mandatory 10 Second Delay to llTeleportAgentHome()
Timothy McGregor
llTeleportAgentHome() should never have been implemented in its current form. While it is understood that the various "security features" of the Linden Scripting Language arguably serve a valid purpose in numerous situations - primarily to mitigate griefing or privacy concerns at the local/parcel level, the reality is that these functions are more often than not used irresponsibly by residents, causing absolutely undue and undeserved disruption to the target resident's Second Life experience.
llTeleportAgentHome() is particularly egregious when used without any advance warning or without enough time to move clear of the parcel. Indeed, the lack of warning and lack of time to clear is the primary offense here. It can be sensibly argued that the vast majority of encounters with these aggressive scripted objects are accidental. Especially when in aircraft, it is impossible to know in advance if your 60 minute flight that you're 30 minutes into is about to be cancelled the moment you cross into the next parcel. I would also argue that it is the residents who deploy these tools in this manner who are the actual griefers.
At the very least, however, please add a mandatory 10 second delay to the teleport home function. Residents can opt-in to a specific implementation should they desire immediate effect, which might be likely in certain games or roleplay experiences. But generally speaking, the instant payload is far too punitive and unnecessarily disruptive to residents who do not mean to intrude, but rather are simply trying to navigate somewhere. It would also be a confusing and probably upsetting event for a new resident to have to experience as they explore the Mainland, and might give them pause to reconsider whether Second Life is worth their time investment if this is the behavior they can expect from the established resident community.
This nonsense has gone on long enough, and too many people are just fed up. Ask anyone in the driving and aviation groups. You are not providing tools for residents to control their experience, you are providing tools for residents to use in an overly aggressive and frankly obnoxious manner toward other residents.
Log In
Tactical UwU
That won't fix anything. It can be bypassed with llResetOtherScript much like the existing delay. Anyone with a basic sense of scripting can easily make a node-based system to get around any throttle.
That said, the use of an auto-kicking feature without a minimum warning period has long been considered a violation of the SecondLife TOS and using such a system has been grounds for administrative action against the owner(s) and/or creator(s). If people are doing this, file an abuse report.
Timothy McGregor
Tactical UwU Up until very recently, there wasn't even a covenant on Mainland. Even now that there is, it doesn't address this, and to my knowledge there is nothing in the Terms of Service or elsewhere that identifies this specific action as a violation.
Also, not sure how it is you think someone could script around a delay, particularly using llResetOtherScript(). This is not a throttle, it's a delayed action. Multiple objects could get around a throttle (script sleeping AFTER an action) to a certain extent, but in any conceivable case, the minimum time to action for llTeleportAgentHome would be 10 seconds, whether you had one object or one hundred objects working together.
Jessica Hultcrantz
While I support the delay idea for a better mainlad experience, I've withdrawn my vote because of the [redacted] bot infestation in SL.
Valid use case for no delay teleports is to get rid of snooping bots that shows up randomly.
If only LL would allow blocking BOT-accounts on parcel level on mainland...One can dream!
Extrude Ragu
This has problems the OP is likely not aware about.
The post writes about mainland concerns surrounding the abuse and I agree I've been punted out of my plane without warning before and I hate it.
HOWEVER
llTeleportAgentHome is currently the only way to eject a resident from a script in a private region, as the other scripted methods will simply send the agent to the edge of the sim.
If the 10 second delay only applies to mainland parcels, that's fine. But if it applies to private regions too, it's going to cause administration headaches.
Timothy McGregor
Extrude Ragu Yeah I already clarified in a comment, I neglected to mention in the OP that I am referring to mainland.
N
Nya Jules
I don't think this is practicable without judging about the usefulness.
The problem is this:
You have a lot of security devices that currently use that function. People have bought these devices. There are people who use that function intentionally with a lower grace period than what the grace period after your suggested change would be. Those people rely on immediate action in order to feel safe. (Again, not judging.)
In the comments you suggest to use a simple eject instead. Even if we assumed that a simple eject would meet those people's needs (and I'm not 100% sure about that even but I don't need to go into that), they can't do that without having to hope for an update of their device or to buy a new device. Their devices will be rendered useless to them.
This needs to be acknowledged and considered at least but it seems to be completely missing from here.
Timothy McGregor
The function was ill-conceived to begin with, and immediately abused. As a mainland parcel owner, I should not have the authority to eject someone else from the region, only my parcel. Yes, unfortunately this would "break content", but it is content that is continuously used carelessly, indiscriminately if not maliciously. The dust would eventually settle, and people would move on to the next thing to complain about.
Jerrod Diavolo
Nya Jules This is a bad argument. Removing the ability to create e.g. self-replicating objects also broke content but it was necessary to improve SL as a whole. Every single graphics update breaks some old content. You can' insist that everything old must forever stay the same.
Timothy McGregor
Linden Lab is enabling any resident who owns land in a Mainland region to indiscriminately remove any other resident from said Mainland region. This power is often granted by proxy to other residents who do NOT own land in the region, by way of security scripts that they have been granted control of.
And residents are in fact indiscriminately removing other residents from Mainland regions on a near constant basis, with no prior warning or opportunity to exit the parcel.
This is a capability that should only be granted to estate owners and their designated managers, to operate on their own estates.
This is fundamentally wrong.
Wulfie Reanimator
Residents can't "remove any other resident from a mainland region." They can only do that when other residents are
on
the land they own.Linden Lab has a solution for this on the Bellisseria continent. The land covenant requires that all security orbs
must
give a minimum of 15 seconds of warning, in addition to allowing anyone to fly between 100-2000 meters and disallowing parcel ban lines.Timothy McGregor
"They can only do that when other residents are on the land they own."
Right. And their ability to control other residents' experience should be limited to removing them from the parcel they own. They are not estate managers on Mainland and should not have the ability to remove residents from a Mainland region, sending them tumbling across the grid to wherever their "home" region is, indiscriminately and without warning. There can be a policy to govern it, but it likely won't change the behavior. Making this function available on Mainland in the first place is the root of the problem.
Inoue Katsu
The need to get bad actors out of a sim or parcel outweighs the being nice for a lot of people.
Having a function that gives people a countdown might be problematic for mainland parcels, it would just get abused by someone constantly crossing the border and resetting the timer. The sim would have to keep track of such shenanigans.
I do believe the majority of security orbs have warning / timer functionality but people explicitly choose not to use it or it's default configuration is to just immediately eject and nobody reads the manual.
Considering people are paying money for their piece of land they quite frankly they can do with it whatever they want, that is the whole concept of owning a piece of virtual land in SL.
Changing this would not be a scripting change but a LL mainland policy change. I do believe they have something like this in place on the 'linden homes' sims ? I seem to recall something about security orbs in the rules.
Other options would be reducing the ban wall height or limiting the height llGetAgentList works at on the mainland / parcel mode.
Adding an optional timer parameter to llTeleportAgentHome is pointless because people just won't use it as people use security orbs made in like 2006, and making it mandatory will make the people who give LL real money upset.
Timothy McGregor
"The need to get bad actors out of a sim or parcel outweighs the being nice for a lot of people." One opinion, sure, but subjective.
"Having a function that gives people a countdown might be problematic for mainland parcels, it would just get abused by someone constantly crossing the border and resetting the timer. The sim would have to keep track of such shenanigans." You still have the option of ejecting and banning. If they're in the parcel ban list, they're not getting back in. Server shouldn't have to "track" anything.
"Considering people are paying money for their piece of land they quite frankly they can do with it whatever they want, that is the whole concept of owning a piece of virtual land in SL." No, that's not how it works. There are many things people cannot do on their parcels. People in Linden Home regions also pay for the privilege of owning there, and they are not allowed to run zero warning scripts. Also, I am paying money for MY experience. LOTS of money.
You are probably right on the policy. This needs to be a policy thing as well.
"Other options would be reducing the ban wall height or limiting the height llGetAgentList works at on the mainland / parcel mode." That's an attractive solution for sure. Would be very hard to implement.
"Adding an optional timer parameter to llTeleportAgentHome is pointless because people just won't use it as people use security orbs made in like 2006, and making it mandatory will make the people who give LL real money upset." Again, what about the real money I pay?
Jeremy Duport
LL land and private estates have very different needs; tying delays like this to estate config options and then increasing the mainland values is the only reasonable way to implement asks along the same lines.
Aside, TeleportAgentHome has always felt backwards / lacking in nuance. It's explicit about what it
does
, but what it's for
is RemoveAgentFromHere. It gives others too much control over the target in mainland spaces and not enough in private estates.Timothy McGregor
I want to clarify - I neglected to mention in my original entry that I am referring specifically to the use of this function on Mainland. I understand that private estates have different concerns/considerations and they are governed entirely by the estate owners. This would be an opt-in default at the estate owner's discretion. The concerns here are squarely around Mainland.
Oil Supply
Agree, though a 15 or 20 second drlay would be better.
And I'd suggest it only be implemented on Mainland, not private estates and regions where the landowner can make other decisions.
I'd also suggest the same delay on adding to Ban Lists and other functions because an accidental incursion can be as disruptive.
A delay on AV (NOT scripted agents) activated ejection and banning should NOT be implemented so that region and parcel owners can react when needed.
Pixel Core
Sorry to say I disagree with this one. I understand where you are coming from and agree that when this function is used on mainland it can be annoying, but immediately teleporting an agent home has its purpose, specifically relating to moderation and privacy and should not be reworked to allow a mandatory grace period.
Timothy McGregor
Pixel Core I would counter that it's Mainland, a densely populated group of continents. If you require privacy at that level, why not rent a place in a private estate? And again, I would ask the same here that I asked in another comment - why is eject/add to ban list insufficient? And MOST importantly, why is it so important to so many people to be able to apply the most punitive, most disruptive action possible to anyone who dares to accidentally wander on to your mainland parcel?
Pixel Core
Timothy McGregor Like a few others have already stated here, Linden Lab policy is that these orbs not be used on mainland in the way that people are unfortunately using them. If LL could implement a grace period for mainland while allowing it to function as per usual on private sims, I could potentially see that working.
Load More
→