Add Mandatory 10 Second Delay to llTeleportAgentHome()
Timothy McGregor
llTeleportAgentHome() should never have been implemented in its current form. While it is understood that the various "security features" of the Linden Scripting Language arguably serve a valid purpose in numerous situations - primarily to mitigate griefing or privacy concerns at the local/parcel level, the reality is that these functions are more often than not used irresponsibly by residents, causing absolutely undue and undeserved disruption to the target resident's Second Life experience.
llTeleportAgentHome() is particularly egregious when used without any advance warning or without enough time to move clear of the parcel. Indeed, the lack of warning and lack of time to clear is the primary offense here. It can be sensibly argued that the vast majority of encounters with these aggressive scripted objects are accidental. Especially when in aircraft, it is impossible to know in advance if your 60 minute flight that you're 30 minutes into is about to be cancelled the moment you cross into the next parcel. I would also argue that it is the residents who deploy these tools in this manner who are the actual griefers.
At the very least, however, please add a mandatory 10 second delay to the teleport home function. Residents can opt-in to a specific implementation should they desire immediate effect, which might be likely in certain games or roleplay experiences. But generally speaking, the instant payload is far too punitive and unnecessarily disruptive to residents who do not mean to intrude, but rather are simply trying to navigate somewhere. It would also be a confusing and probably upsetting event for a new resident to have to experience as they explore the Mainland, and might give them pause to reconsider whether Second Life is worth their time investment if this is the behavior they can expect from the established resident community.
This nonsense has gone on long enough, and too many people are just fed up. Ask anyone in the driving and aviation groups. You are not providing tools for residents to control their experience, you are providing tools for residents to use in an overly aggressive and frankly obnoxious manner toward other residents.
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Tactical UwU
Edit: Misread OP.
The use of an auto-kicking feature without a minimum warning period has long been considered a violation of the SecondLife TOS and using such a system has been grounds for administrative action against the owner(s) and/or creator(s). If people are doing this, file an abuse report.
For those who asked, it's considered "Assault" under the current Community Standards: "Creating or using scripts that singularly or persistently target a user and prevent a user’s enjoyment of the Service is [...] not allowed." It would technically also fall under "Disturbing the Peace".
Timothy McGregor
Tactical UwU Up until very recently, there wasn't even a covenant on Mainland. Even now that there is, it doesn't address this, and to my knowledge there is nothing in the Terms of Service or elsewhere that identifies this specific action as a violation.
Also, not sure how it is you think someone could script around a delay, particularly using llResetOtherScript(). This is not a throttle, it's a delayed action. Multiple objects could get around a throttle (script sleeping AFTER an action) to a certain extent, but in any conceivable case, the minimum time to action for llTeleportAgentHome would be 10 seconds, whether you had one object or one hundred objects working together.
Certified Lunasea
Timothy McGregor The fix is not to restrict anything in the scripting engine that is already in place and has been for many years. The fix is for LL to fix the covenant to address the issue and quantify a minimum delay for any mainland classified region and then enforce their covenant.
I've been scripting in SL for over 16 years and can attest that adding delays like this to these calls would cause far more harm than good. Such delays are are added as a forced sleep times due to using the call, this means no further processing of the script may occur during the indicated period of time. llEmail for example has a 20 second sleep forced upon its use and causes scripts that use it to be excruciatingly slow even when used only within SL so the message is never sent to an outside server. This makes it impractical for many uses where it could provide region-to-region scripted communications without the need for llHTTPRequest or outside servers and added costs and skills required for such.
Adding delays to scripted calls whose use is already restricted to land owners, estate managers, or estate owners would erode the Linden-given ability to use such for those that pay for their parcels and/or regions to reasonably restrict access to their virtual land.
For these land owners to know exactly what is considered acceptable notice they must be given a quantitative amount of time for these warnings, and if such is violated then the team managing said regions should be given the ability to address it (for LL that would be members of the governance team).
Adding delays that are too long to these calls may also deter creators from using mainland at all since it wouldn't take a lot of time for a malicious bot operator to potentially copy items and textures from across the region, which is harmful to them and to SL in general. Especially when I have added over 200 bots to my region ban list in under 45 days. None of which declare any information about what they are after, and LL doesn't ask for this information when a scripted agent is declared either. If we had to put them on a parcel list that would be two-thirds of the list full in a relatively short period of time, and it isn't a comprehensive list by any means either.
Timothy McGregor
Certified Lunasea
I've been scripting for a long time myself, and programming for a much longer time before that. Your time spent scripting is irrelevant.
The fix is for Linden Lab to acknowledge that they never should have allowed this function be used by mainland parcel owners. It effectively gives them estate powers over mainland regions. And the reality is, the vast majority of these scripts are executing this function indiscriminately. The owner/operator of the script doesn't give a shit if the target is a bot, a griefer or an innocent person just trying to get somewhere. They are simply playing "Get off my lawn". But worse: They are removing people from the region, not simply from their parcel. This is a power that only estate owners should have.
I am starting to give less and less of a fraction of a flying f$#k about these various arguments.. "what about the bots? what about the griefers?" You don't have any idea what these "bots" are doing, or if they're even actually bots. You are just machine gunning anything that has agency off the region.
You are all way over dramatizing the entire situation with respect to griefing and with respect to bots.
Sorry, but adding 5 seconds sleep to your script that just punted me to BFE because I accidently crossed into your parcel while trying to navigate a sim crossing does not give me pause to be sympathetic.
This isn't about "security". This is about you people insisting you have the divine right to be assholes.
Certified Lunasea
Timothy McGregor I'm not advocating a right to be unfair (paraphrasing due to your vulgarity here). I am pointing out that the underlying issue is not the security systems or the scripting call itself, it's a lack of governance/guidance on appropriate time frames that need to be defined by Linden Lab for use of such on mainland. I've also pointed out that any delay added to a scripting call is not likely to be mainland specific, but will likely effect all of Second Life. So, before you go calling names and telling people that their experience or arguments are invalid, please make sure to both read and comprehend what is being said lest you simply assume the worst in others and definitely display such in yourself. If you took the time to do some research, rather than lashing out, then you might find that we have different levels of experience within Second Life and you might be more understanding of issues many of us have with bots, especially after having items stolen (which really does take less than two seconds).
If you've been scripting long then you should know llEjectFromLand fails under certain conditions in which llTeleportAgentHome is preferable and that scripted agents are detectable if declared as such, meaning I know the agents I removed and counted were scripted agents. Estate Managers can disallow scripted agents at the region level, but this isn't available for mainland and prevents allowing bots users find useful. So no, I don't just go "machine gunning anything that has agency off the region". I like having actual visitors so I'm more granular with my detection and removal.
Since this is a social issue the best fix altering the covenant to include a minimum time prior to ejection. Experienced scripters like myself could then detect if the script is on mainland and adjust minimum timings appropriately. Given the current situation, I do provide instructions to follow covenant rules, but leave timing to end-users as this allows the flexibility to cover their needs regardless of any restrictions.
If you aren't paying for the land and your last name isn't Linden you don't have any right to use it. The person paying for it has the Linden-given right to remove you within reason, TOS, and covenant rules. Unfortunately Linden Lab has failed to define allowed timing in the covenant, or even provide a URL where rules for such could be found for residents purchasing and making use of mainland.
Timothy McGregor
Certified Lunasea I'll agree with a couple points - namely that the person paying for the land has the right to remove you from the land.. from the parcel that they own. NOT from the region. I also agree that Linden Lab has ignored the various issues here since the beginning of time, and their indifference is precisely WHY we have llTeleportAgentHome(). That was their "solution".
Bots and content creators: You don't know what bot is doing what. Again, if you want to eject bots off your parcel, have at it. If you want to remove bots from the region, I have a fundamental problem with that unless it's a private estate region which you own or otherwise are authorized to manage. Content creators by now understand that their content is out there, and if content theft is as rampant as many seem to insist, it's not a problem that can be solved by randomly booting bots off a parcel. There is an entire legal process available to creators to deal with actual, demonstrated content theft. If you don't have any evidence, you're putting the execution before the prosecution by running these "ban all the bots" processes, and really achieving little or anything at all at the end of the day. Speaking of "there should be a policy", there really should be a better policy and better tools to enable residents to manage bots at their parcel. I fully agree with you on that.
"Adding delays that are too long to these calls may also deter creators from using mainland at all since it wouldn't take a lot of time for a malicious bot operator to potentially copy items and textures from across the region" - Creators, at least those with the means, have options other than Mainland to create their content, and in fact many of them exercise those options. At the end of the day though, the content they create is out there on the grid - that's the reason they create - and this hyperbolic, panicked response to bots and anything that looks like bots at the individual parcel level is not going to do anything at all to alleviate the problem of content theft. It's just not.
Timothy McGregor
"Especially when I have added over 200 bots to my region ban list in under 45 days." - What measurable, quantifiable results have you achieved with this practice? How much content theft have you (measurably) prevented? If this is a private region, I'm not so concerned about it, as this is really a discussion about Mainland. But the same practices occur there, and in reality the only quantifiable result is that the parcel owner feels good because they managed to ban a bunch of evil, nefarious, content-stealing, privacy invading bots, and in the process, punted a bunch of noobs back across the grid for the cardinal sin of haplessly wandering one centimeter inside a parcel.
"But what about my privacy? If you're on my parcel you can see my naughty bits and my animated bed!" Anecdotal here, but over the last 19 years or so, I have easily done hundreds of hours of flying and sailing across Mainland, and at LEAST 95% of the time when I get punted, there's nobody home.
Sorry, I get worked up because I hear all of this "reasoning" over and over and when you start to really examine it, it doesn't hold water.
Certified Lunasea
Timothy McGregor If you want to fix this issue on mainland then you should ask for the covenant to be fixed to include a minimum required warning time for such systems, just as one would provide on private regions when renting parcels to other residents. The failure of Linden Lab is not in providing and allowing use of llTeleportAgentHome, but in not providing a properly formulated covenant for mainland which they also would need to enforce for it to be worth anything.
My actions are, as previously stated and which you appear to have missed, on a private region and did help to ensure that my regions are no longer being entered by a large number of random bots that did not disclose what data they are after nor provide any information as to whom their operator may be so that I could contact them to request information about or cessation of the activity upon the regions I manage. If I don't know what the bot is doing, and I cannot get hold of the operator, then I must assume the operator has something to hide and as such I don't want them or their bots on my land and will respond accordingly.
As for theft and the process for combating such in SL, I am unfortunately quite familiar with the DMCA process and how Linden Lab works in that regard. Let's be honest, that process is little more than a game of whack-a-mole and it is absolutely not necessary for it to be so. Linden Lab could go a long way to improve the process. With DMCA processes being such a pain, potentially expensive (especially if crossing any borders of any kind). Since I can easily minimize potential automated thievery by disallowing bots that don't tell anyone what they are doing or whom is in control of them I will indeed do so by removing them in an extremely short time-frame to minimize what data they can gather since the less time they are there, the less they can potentially steal.
Certified Lunasea
Timothy McGregor I can understand the frustration for those of you that are unable to see the banlines before it is too late or who occasionally run afoul of a security orb set up for immediate ejection and have to retrieve your vehicle from lost and found or go find it wherever it got left. That said, I can also understand why it is that these calls are needed for those that are paying for that land and do not wish to allow others to use it without permission.
In my case it isn't a privacy issue, though I can understand why it is for some. I've had friends and acquaintances that have been stalked, harassed, and griefed for months on end without any action from Linden Lab. I've had to deal with such things first hand when working in estate management for land companies. There are legitimate and very real reasons why these calls exist, and why they are still needed.
When it comes down to it the person paying for the parcel being crossed without permission is harmed simply by the expenditure of LI used by the vehicle passing through their parcel. After all, you don't know what they may have rezzed out and running that said expenditure of LI may be interfering with while crossing the parcel that they pay for.
Certified Lunasea
Timothy McGregor If you are still unable to understand why some may oppose your proposals for added delays then perhaps you can tell us at what point one's intrusion into another resident's parcel without permission becomes unreasonable? Is it after multiple attempts at entry? Could it be when they walk into their bedroom mid-coitus? Or maybe when they start criticizing the decorating style of the resident? Or perhaps it is when they started using up the resources earmarked for their parcel without permission of the person who is paying for the land upon which they have entered?
Pretty sure that last one is the line a lot of folks draw, and I can't disagree with them, especially if it has happened more than once or twice or in cases where they have been stolen from, stalked, or otherwise harassed in the past.
Tactical UwU
Timothy McGregor Cited the section covered by the TOS. It falls as a breach of the Community Standards.
PS: I am not a Linden and this is based on actions previously taken by the support team when addressing offending items of this nature. Whether or not their enforcement of this policy remains the same is debatable.
Certified Lunasea
Tactical UwU Unfortunately it does not actually fall under this as the script is would be operating within the users own paid for parcel and within the rules presented to a user by Linden Lab upon purchase or continued use of the mainland parcel. These scripted calls cannot effect you if you are not on a parcel upon which such is running and effective in the slightest, so until you have attempted to enter the parcel there is no effect of any sort for you.
Security system scripts are not set to be target specific as this would be pointless. The point at which it does target a specific user is only to the extent necessary to utilize the function call that effects the ejection, which has again been provided by Linden Lab for use by land owners, estate managers, and estate owners. These calls are unable to be utilized by anyone other than that and are unable to work on anyone not over land owned by such.
The Community Standards, Mainland Policy, Terms and Conditions, Terms of Service, Content Guidelines, and the covenant upon mainland are all lacking a definition of what the minimum required warn time is and as such the residents using these calls are within the rules on this. If there is to be a warning and a minimum required delay on mainland parcels using these scripts then that must be defined within the covenant rules and/or a URL provided from such to the relevant documentation covering such. At least at this time, there is no option for any action to be taken due to use of these items without a change to the mainland covenant, or other relevantly referenced documents.
Certified Lunasea
Now think about it for a moment, if I target you via right-click and eject you, did you get any warning about that either? How about if I were to add you to a parcel ban list whilst you are standing upon land I have control for, do you get a warning then? No, you don't. Are those actions also violations of any of those documents? Not in the slightest.
Unfortunately llEjectFromLand is not always effective at removing people, nor is the ability to manually target a user for ejection. It would be quite nice if it was effective at such, but what about those that own multiple adjacent parcels or have adjacent parcels across region borders? Do they need to manually ban users from every parcel and have them bounce between them? I'd think that far more disruptive to the user than it is to provide a single change from one region to another for the user being removed. Not only that for those that have been victims of harassment, stalking, or other such heinous behavior an immediate removal of the agent creating distress is far more favorable. Or should we force victims of such to endure their presence and abuse for the sake of someone wanting to use land without the permission of the person who pays to have the ability to use it?
Also keep in mind when you set your home position you are choosing where you are teleported to in case such a call is used on you or if linden damage is enabled and your avatar health is reduced to zero, the user of this scripted call doesn't choose your destination point. You do. Should we also remove all of the linden damage calls while we are at it? Or maybe we need to add a delay to activation of the death teleportation too while we are at it? Can't possibly see that going over well with the combat system enthusiasts.
Certified Lunasea
And of course there is one little detail that not one of you has apparently thought about yet llEjectFromLand and llTeleportAgentHome have no method to communicate with you to give you warning. None at all. So adding a delay to this will still be likely to have you removed, without warning, even if your delay gets added. Meaning you are effectively in the same position as you are now.
This kind of request does not solve your problem of having no warning or ability to avoid the impending removal because these calls don't do anything other than what the call says they do. We provide the ability to warn users by using any of the calls specifically used to send messages, my particular favorite is llRegionSayTo or llDialog since these work quite nicely (except for those on the mobile viewer, which LL needs to fix) without potentially spamming anyone else due to the encroachment.
Since it is an entirely different SET of calls used to provide you with any warning at all what you really need is what I have been saying all along. You need a warning with a minimum delay afterward before ejection to be defined and enforced. Plain and simple. For those of you that understand LSL scripting, you likely already knew this, but for the rest please feel free to imagine one of those "The more you know" gif images here.
Tactical UwU
Certified Lunasea In the thread Philip Linden made about this issue, I -did- in fact reference that multiple functions act this way and that the request change would have to be applied all administrative functions.
You can find that thread here: https://feedback.secondlife.com/scripting-features/p/always-wait-a-few-seconds-before-ejecting-an-avatar-from-a-parcel
The short of it is people are going to have to decide whether they prefer the extra privacy of a private region or the availability of mainland regions as its very much likely these functions will end up restricted at least on mainland regions.
Certified Lunasea
Tactical UwU I've been active in my opposition to altering well-established and functional scripting calls on that thread as well, but I suppose you hadn't noticed that. You may want to read the entirety of what I posted both in this thread and that one so you may understand what I am about to say a bit better.
In both cases the complaint is primarily that people are being ejected immediately and without warning. And in both cases the requested fix for this has been to add a delay to a scripting call to prevent the immediate ejection. The problem is that the issue being complained about is not able to be solved by alteration of scripted calls in this manner as the issue is one that is not technical but social in nature and adding a delay to the calls requested ignores the lack of a warning so you could still find yourself removed without knowing it was about to happen. Adding further delays to these calls will not help the issue of not being warned prior to being ejected as these calls are not designed to send messages, sending a message to an avatar requires use of llWhisper, llSay, llShout, llInstantMessage, llRegionSayTo, and/or llDialog.
Most security scripts have a configurable time to wait after a warning message is sent before invoking a call to remove an agent. Doing this allows the same script to be used across the grid since it is flexible enough to work with the rules provided by most land agencies, including warning time rules.
The wiki entry for llTeleportAgentHome shows it has a forced delay for its use, this happens after the call is invoked and prevents the script from proceeding any further (read: it stops working) for the duration of the delay.
Fixing this will require that Linden Lab provide a quantifiable amount of time required for warnings from security systems prior to any ejection method being used within the covenant on mainland somehow, which is standard practice with most 3rd-party land rental agencies in Second Life. There is no excuse for Linden Lab not having defined a rule governing this. Additionally Linden Lab needs ensure they enforce the mainland covenant after they fix this glaring omission.
Certified Lunasea
Tactical UwU I don't agree that these functions should end up restricted on mainland regions. What I believe needs to happen is that Linden Lab needs to provide a covenant with minimum warning times defined for mainland regions.
You should realize that there are no script functions that work differently based on the region being mainland or not, and I don't think that is going to change. It would be a lot more work than you may imagine for Linden Lab to make a subset of calls work differently if running on mainland regions vs. non-mainland regions.
Keep in mind that the "tracked" status means that Linden Lab is evaluating the issue, determining the feasibility of the requested change, and looking for additional feedback. This does not mean that the proposed change will be implemented because there is an entire process before any proposed change is implemented. If you want the status that means a proposed change may be implemented, that would be the "planned" status, which indicates a request has been evaluated, seems feasible, has been accepted into the development queue and that Linden Lab intends to implement the proposal. A status of "in progress" indicates that a planned change is being actively worked upon and/or tested and could be coming fairly soon.
Also remember that just because a Linden has posed a question about what issues may be caused by adding a delay to one call, does not mean that a change is guaranteed to be implemented. If that were the case there would have been no need to ask any questions. Instead there would have been a simple proposal which would be immediately marked as "tracked" and then marked "planned" right after that. This has happened numerous times since the transition to Canny and also in the past with Jira, but you should notice that isn't the case this time around.
Jessica Hultcrantz
While I support the delay idea for a better mainlad experience, I've withdrawn my vote because of the [redacted] bot infestation in SL.
Valid use case for no delay teleports is to get rid of snooping bots that shows up randomly.
If only LL would allow blocking BOT-accounts on parcel level on mainland...One can dream!
Extrude Ragu
This has problems the OP is likely not aware about.
The post writes about mainland concerns surrounding the abuse and I agree I've been punted out of my plane without warning before and I hate it.
HOWEVER
llTeleportAgentHome is currently the only way to eject a resident from a script in a private region, as the other scripted methods will simply send the agent to the edge of the sim.
If the 10 second delay only applies to mainland parcels, that's fine. But if it applies to private regions too, it's going to cause administration headaches.
Timothy McGregor
Extrude Ragu Yeah I already clarified in a comment, I neglected to mention in the OP that I am referring to mainland.
N
Nya Jules
I don't think this is practicable without judging about the usefulness.
The problem is this:
You have a lot of security devices that currently use that function. People have bought these devices. There are people who use that function intentionally with a lower grace period than what the grace period after your suggested change would be. Those people rely on immediate action in order to feel safe. (Again, not judging.)
In the comments you suggest to use a simple eject instead. Even if we assumed that a simple eject would meet those people's needs (and I'm not 100% sure about that even but I don't need to go into that), they can't do that without having to hope for an update of their device or to buy a new device. Their devices will be rendered useless to them.
This needs to be acknowledged and considered at least but it seems to be completely missing from here.
Timothy McGregor
The function was ill-conceived to begin with, and immediately abused. As a mainland parcel owner, I should not have the authority to eject someone else from the region, only my parcel. Yes, unfortunately this would "break content", but it is content that is continuously used carelessly, indiscriminately if not maliciously. The dust would eventually settle, and people would move on to the next thing to complain about.
Jerrod Diavolo
Nya Jules This is a bad argument. Removing the ability to create e.g. self-replicating objects also broke content but it was necessary to improve SL as a whole. Every single graphics update breaks some old content. You can' insist that everything old must forever stay the same.
Certified Lunasea
Jerrod Diavolo I would agree that security implementations to prevent self-replication were indeed necessary, but that is an apples to oranges argument as that self-replication needed to be stopped to prevent damages to residents, Second Life, and Linden Lab due to their being able to be used to crash resident viewers or regions.
This scripting call is not a detriment to Linden Lab itself, nor does it cause harm to the region servers (doesn't crash them). The only ones effected by such are those entering onto land protected by some form of scripted system that uses such calls and upon which they have not been allowed in some way.
I do agree that the timing issue should be dealt with on mainland, but this needs to be handled appropriately. Doing so is as simple as alteration of mainland covenant to include a minimum time prior to use of such calls with adequate warning to any trespassing agent, then informing the whole of Second Life of the alteration, followed by enforcement through use of the governance team when issues are brought to their attention. This would serve to eventually fix the issue by providing a path to resolution in cases of violations, and would also cause no harm to residents that may already have purchased a system that can be configured to be compliant.
Additionally letting us know what the minimum time is would allow those of us actively updating our scripts to auto-detect if a security script were to be placed upon mainland and adjust minimum allowed timings as necessary.
If this is how they fixed it then it would solve the issue at hand, and would require no alterations to Second Life or the scripting engine. While it may take time to provide the desired outcome (no more 0-second ejections on mainland) it would eventually happen and with minimal issues for all parties involved.
Timothy McGregor
Linden Lab is enabling any resident who owns land in a Mainland region to indiscriminately remove any other resident from said Mainland region. This power is often granted by proxy to other residents who do NOT own land in the region, by way of security scripts that they have been granted control of.
And residents are in fact indiscriminately removing other residents from Mainland regions on a near constant basis, with no prior warning or opportunity to exit the parcel.
This is a capability that should only be granted to estate owners and their designated managers, to operate on their own estates.
This is fundamentally wrong.
Wulfie Reanimator
Residents can't "remove any other resident from a mainland region." They can only do that when other residents are
on
the land they own.Linden Lab has a solution for this on the Bellisseria continent. The land covenant requires that all security orbs
must
give a minimum of 15 seconds of warning, in addition to allowing anyone to fly between 100-2000 meters and disallowing parcel ban lines.Timothy McGregor
"They can only do that when other residents are on the land they own."
Right. And their ability to control other residents' experience should be limited to removing them from the parcel they own. They are not estate managers on Mainland and should not have the ability to remove residents from a Mainland region, sending them tumbling across the grid to wherever their "home" region is, indiscriminately and without warning. There can be a policy to govern it, but it likely won't change the behavior. Making this function available on Mainland in the first place is the root of the problem.
Inoue Katsu
The need to get bad actors out of a sim or parcel outweighs the being nice for a lot of people.
Having a function that gives people a countdown might be problematic for mainland parcels, it would just get abused by someone constantly crossing the border and resetting the timer. The sim would have to keep track of such shenanigans.
I do believe the majority of security orbs have warning / timer functionality but people explicitly choose not to use it or it's default configuration is to just immediately eject and nobody reads the manual.
Considering people are paying money for their piece of land they quite frankly they can do with it whatever they want, that is the whole concept of owning a piece of virtual land in SL.
Changing this would not be a scripting change but a LL mainland policy change. I do believe they have something like this in place on the 'linden homes' sims ? I seem to recall something about security orbs in the rules.
Other options would be reducing the ban wall height or limiting the height llGetAgentList works at on the mainland / parcel mode.
Adding an optional timer parameter to llTeleportAgentHome is pointless because people just won't use it as people use security orbs made in like 2006, and making it mandatory will make the people who give LL real money upset.
Timothy McGregor
"The need to get bad actors out of a sim or parcel outweighs the being nice for a lot of people." One opinion, sure, but subjective.
"Having a function that gives people a countdown might be problematic for mainland parcels, it would just get abused by someone constantly crossing the border and resetting the timer. The sim would have to keep track of such shenanigans." You still have the option of ejecting and banning. If they're in the parcel ban list, they're not getting back in. Server shouldn't have to "track" anything.
"Considering people are paying money for their piece of land they quite frankly they can do with it whatever they want, that is the whole concept of owning a piece of virtual land in SL." No, that's not how it works. There are many things people cannot do on their parcels. People in Linden Home regions also pay for the privilege of owning there, and they are not allowed to run zero warning scripts. Also, I am paying money for MY experience. LOTS of money.
You are probably right on the policy. This needs to be a policy thing as well.
"Other options would be reducing the ban wall height or limiting the height llGetAgentList works at on the mainland / parcel mode." That's an attractive solution for sure. Would be very hard to implement.
"Adding an optional timer parameter to llTeleportAgentHome is pointless because people just won't use it as people use security orbs made in like 2006, and making it mandatory will make the people who give LL real money upset." Again, what about the real money I pay?
Jeremy Duport
LL land and private estates have very different needs; tying delays like this to estate config options and then increasing the mainland values is the only reasonable way to implement asks along the same lines.
Aside, TeleportAgentHome has always felt backwards / lacking in nuance. It's explicit about what it
does
, but what it's for
is RemoveAgentFromHere. It gives others too much control over the target in mainland spaces and not enough in private estates.Timothy McGregor
I want to clarify - I neglected to mention in my original entry that I am referring specifically to the use of this function on Mainland. I understand that private estates have different concerns/considerations and they are governed entirely by the estate owners. This would be an opt-in default at the estate owner's discretion. The concerns here are squarely around Mainland.
Cuddles Supply
Agree, though a 15 or 20 second drlay would be better.
And I'd suggest it only be implemented on Mainland, not private estates and regions where the landowner can make other decisions.
I'd also suggest the same delay on adding to Ban Lists and other functions because an accidental incursion can be as disruptive.
A delay on AV (NOT scripted agents) activated ejection and banning should NOT be implemented so that region and parcel owners can react when needed.
Pixel Core
Sorry to say I disagree with this one. I understand where you are coming from and agree that when this function is used on mainland it can be annoying, but immediately teleporting an agent home has its purpose, specifically relating to moderation and privacy and should not be reworked to allow a mandatory grace period.
Timothy McGregor
Pixel Core I would counter that it's Mainland, a densely populated group of continents. If you require privacy at that level, why not rent a place in a private estate? And again, I would ask the same here that I asked in another comment - why is eject/add to ban list insufficient? And MOST importantly, why is it so important to so many people to be able to apply the most punitive, most disruptive action possible to anyone who dares to accidentally wander on to your mainland parcel?
Pixel Core
Timothy McGregor Like a few others have already stated here, Linden Lab policy is that these orbs not be used on mainland in the way that people are unfortunately using them. If LL could implement a grace period for mainland while allowing it to function as per usual on private sims, I could potentially see that working.
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