Resizing a low prim object trashed my parcel
closed
Bavid Dailey
I have a small object, which when rezzed, is 6 LI. it is a circular object 0.16667 diameter, and rather thin. I wanted to increse the diameter to about 0.5 meter. So I edited it , chose stretch and got the size I wanted. Looked up , and saw that a good part of my parcel had vanished.
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Maestro Linden
closed
I still can't reproduce this issue after further attempts. When I rescale an object to inflate its LI and cause the parcel to overflow, the updated object is returned and older/unchanged objects on the parcel remain unscathed.
Bavid Dailey
Just to close my side of this discussion, I have managed to retore the parcel - the batch of colesced objects that were the returned items included one which contained the object that - after resizing , exceeded the parcel object limit , and was therefore not able to be rezzed on the parcel. I solved that issue by rezzing it on a public sandbox (cmd-3 then rez), de-selecting the offending object, and take as multiple items.
2 observations after some reflection :-
1) that resizing a small object can increase the LI - from 6 to 1600+ - is just bonkers. I know that the LI calculation using scale is under discussion, well this is an outlier case of how consequential that calculation can be.
2) the handling of LI limit exceeded while in edit mode is remarkably user unfriendly. Obviously the server 'knows' the limit is about to be exceeded - so why not cancel the operation and notify the user? Returning hundreds of prims from the active editing avatar AND other avatars with objects on the parcel is just bad practice.
I am not able to reproduce this on the small test area Maestro showed me, nor can I do anything on the beta grid, because the account and group data on the beta grid just isn't current enough. I'm not about to try it on the parcel, so I have to admit defeat and allow Maestro to close the report.
Lucia Nightfire
This is expected behavior. Autoreturn in an overflow environment depends on prim param update order. If you have ANY objects whose prims make full updates while your overflowing object is selected, they will "jump" the queue to be returned.
Bavid Dailey
Lucia Nightfire well it might be expected for you, but it certainly wasn't for me. That's is true also for most people whom I have discussed the issue with in the last days, some of them quite knowledgeable developers.
And a warning before taking such drastic actions would be basic good UI practice, I'd have thought.
That said, your explanation is plausible.
Maestro Linden
needs info
Maestro Linden
Hi Bavid Dailey, if you select edit an object in such a way that its land impact increases to exceed the parcel capacity, the parcel autoreturn behavior should kick in but return that particular object - not other objects that had remained unchanged on the parcel. From what you describe, it should have returned the 1600 LI object rather than the other objects on the parcel, as it was the most-recently-updated object.
I tried something similar, and only see the the most recently-updated object (which increased LI) being returned, which is what you'd expect:
- Visit a parcel with <100 spare LI
- Rez a few objects on the parcel, which are all within the LI limit
- Rez a torus on the parcel and set its scale to <0.5, 0.5, 0.01>It will initially be using the 'legacy' prim accounting system and thus have 1 LI.
- Rez a few other objects on the parcel, which are all within the LI limit
- Select the torus and add a "Bumpiness (normal)" map to it. This will cause the torus to use the 'meshy' LI system (see https://community.secondlife.com/knowledgebase/english/calculating-land-impact-r273/#Section__1_1 ) and jump up to 128 LI due to its very expensive physics shape. The new LI appears in the build tool, but the object isn't returned at this point as it's still selected.
- Deselect the torus, and note which objects get returned.
In my own testing, only the recently-edited torus with very high LI was autoreturned - the other objects on the parcel remained. Are you seeing different results? If so, can you describe your specific steps to have the wrong objects be autoreturned from the parcel?
Bavid Dailey
Maestro LindenI think the best way to get you the info, is to give you a copy of the offendign object. It is created bya colleague and is no transfer, I have asked him if he is amenable to sharing a copy with you and he agrees. He will share a copy with you.
Bavid Dailey
Maestro LindenI discovered four coalesced objects in my Lost and Found aAnother avatar had one which they managed to rez . The landlord had one from his rent box,
Of mine, I was able to handle 2 of them, but the remaining 2 were marked no-copy and refused to rez anywhere, saying there were insufficient prims. SInce the other avatar took their objects and left, there should be no shortage of prims. I surmise that the non rez able objects contain the offending device, but have refrained from investigating, prefering to wait to get on the test grid .....
Bavid Dailey
Maestro LindenThere has been forums discussion of this incident , perhaps it is of interest to you https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/522043-scaling-a-6-li-device-up-returned-a-large-fraction-of-my-parcel/
Maestro Linden
Bavid Dailey: Alright, I can work with that object if you think it's particular to this bug.
Would you be able to see if the issue reproduce a 2nd time? This location on 'Bug Island' (public access) would be a good test parcel:
It has a different owner than the rest of the region, and has a land capacity of only 78 - so it should be easy to (1) add a few objects to the parcel, (2) rez the offending object, (3) modify the scale of the offending object, and (4) note if the offending object got returned (as expected) or if the other/older objects got returned.
Maestro Linden
rory.Torrance gave me a copy of the 'ALETHEOMETER' object that you initially hit the return issue with. I tried again with this object, but can't reproduce any failures:
- Visit http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Bug%20Island/215/45/27
- Rez a few objects on the parcel, which are all within the LI limit
- Rez 'ALETHEOMETER' - observe its initial LI is 6
- Select and increase the scale of 'ALETHEOMETER' until it is approximately 0.5m wide. Observe in the build tool that the LI has increased dramatically to ~1700 due to a high physics cost.
- Deselect the 'ALETHEOMETER' and note what gets returned due to the parcel being well over its 78 LI limit.
I tried this a few times but wasn't able to reproduce any incorrect behavior; 'ALETHEOMETER' was returned every time due to its high LI after scaling, while the older objects in the parcel remained.
Bavid showed up at the same Bug Island location, and saw the same results as me. Bavid wants to try it more times on beta grid.
I'll close this issue if we aren't able to get a positive in the next few days.
Bavid Dailey
Maestro Linden I applied for access to beta/aditi some days ago and nothing has transpired to date. I am assuming that once it is set up, there will be a copy of the sim containing my parcel there, where I can continue this. Meanwhile my parcel is not restorable
Bavid Dailey
Maestro Linden Hello Maestro; I can confirm that the resized object with > 1600 LI, was returned as part of the coalesced object that i was subsequently unable to rez on the parcel (logically enough).
I confirmed this on the beta grid, going to a sandbox , rezzing the coalseced object and not deselecting it, and in firestorm , taking the selection as indvidual objects - and findling an alethiometer which hadn't been there before.
So there is a pathway where the offending resized object is returned as part of a colesced object ; and the rest of the colesced object contents is made up of other objects from the parcel.
I don't know how to reproduce it, but I think that if my parcel (snd the rest of the Dumont sim) were on the beta grid, we'd have a chance of doing so.
Maestro Linden
Bavid Dailey: You should be able to login to Aditi (the "beta grid") directly without needing to contact support. That said, Aditi only has a tiny fraction of the regions that are available on Agni, so most regions will not be present. The "Bug Island" location I suggested for testing is on the main grid, Agni.
Maestro Linden
Bavid Dailey: I have launched a copy of Dumont on the beta grid at secondlife://Aditi/secondlife/Dumont/157/139/21
Note that it's new enough on this grid that it still appears as "Offline" on the world map. You should be able to visit it by specifying Dumont as your start location at login time.
Bavid Dailey
Maestro Linden Thankyou Maestro
Bavid Dailey
Maestro Linden Seems I was premature in my thanks. Dumont is there and I can tp to it.
BUT, my groups don't reflect the current situation, they seem to be from at least a decade ago. That means my land group - Jazzedeco - isn't in my list of groups. If I try and join it, i'm told it doesn't exist. Therefore I cannot rez on DUmont. So no tests are possible.
And, I cannot set home there.
Also, there's a quite a lot wrong with my avatar's inventory, folders restored from the past, many folders moved about. I'd be able to work past that , but inability to rez is a test killer.
Maestro Linden
Bavid Dailey: Alright, if you're just looking for a parcel with limited LI to rez in, the location I mentioned at http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Bug%20Island/215/45/27 should do.
Bavid Dailey
Maestro Linden I think there has to be something particular about the objects on my parcel , which is why I was arguing for Dumont to be on the beta grid, recall we both tried to reproduce on the bugs island parcel and failed..
Aside : is there aregion called unpakistan which I can use to extract the offending alethiometer froma coalesced object in my inventory ?