Testing of new double region crossing fixes by Pepper Linden
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xlSapirCohenlx Resident
I never had issues crossing regions in past like this. Now i cant boat or fly, i dont know what happened but if i am lucky i can cross 2-3 regions before crashing. It works much better flying over Bellisseria though.
AlettaMondragon Resident
It might be worth mentioning that I had a bad case of ghosted attachments. After I had been sitting on the test train and completed the corner crossing more than 60 times, at 19:40 SLT, I added an item to my avatar that attaches to avatar center, and my attachments on chest, left shoulder, nose and all HUDs (3 in total) got detached. I hadn't looked at my Appearance tab before this happened, so I don't know if they showed red, but it looks like they were ghosted. The unusual thing about this is that my ghosted attachments normally detach only when I detach something, if I attach something else, they usually stay attached.
After 110 corner crossings I hopped off the train and noticed that the exact same attachments showed red in my outfits now, so at 20:48:58 while standing at secondlife://Aditi/secondlife/Blake%20Sea%20-%20Hawser/249/238/22 I attached the same item that had triggered the detachment earlier, however this time it didn't result in anything else detaching. Only when I detached it at 20:51:07, all the ghosted attachments detached with it as well.
animats Resident
Caught a failure with Sharpview logging:
12:23:23.753 [WARN] From (291072,268800), message: MsgDisableSimulator
That's Blake Sea, Thunderer, region [1137, 1050], at 5:23 AM SLT (12:23 UTC) on 2026-08-08. The simulator just told the viewer to disconnect from that region, and the main agent was in it. That kills the viewer.
Animatsalt is riding the train, controlled by a Sharpview viewer instance, with Animats also on the train, controlled by a Firestorm instance. Everything was going fine, then, out of nowhere, Thunderer sent that
DisableSimulator
message for the region with the main agent. That should not happen unless the region goes down. That's not right. Please take a close look at the server logs at that moment.When animatsalt was forcibly logged out, the avi disappeared in the Firestorm instance running animats. No more zombie avatar visible but connected to no viewer. That was the latest fix installed in the server last night, and it seems to have worked.
animats Resident
Pepper Linden installed a new simulator (Rider's Test Channel 2026-08-08-31237647022) on the Blake Sea aditi test regions on the evening of August 7th. This has some fixes related to avatars falling off and being logged out, but remaining visible to other viewers. So I started up the train again, with animats and animatsalt on board. Running fine after 1.5 hours. But with only 2 avis, it usually works fine for hours. If you have time, hop onto the train and stay logged in while doing something else.
To increase load, I tried a cube object that moves rapidly back and forth across a region boundary using keyframe animation Six of those run for 10 minutes had zero effect. I suspect the load has to be avatars for it to matter. I've seen an avatar fall of the train right after someone TPd into the area.
AlettaMondragon Resident
I've noticed something else here as well that I had never seen before. The terrain textures shift when I cross these regions:
The only thing I can see here is that Blake Sea - Thunderer has a different terrain texture order, otherwise all regions have the same settings.
This has nothing to do with what we're testing here, but this definitely shouldn't happen. Pepper Linden or Maestro Linden could you please set up the terrain textures in Thunderer to match the other three regions, so we could see if this still happens when all four regions have the same layout? As you can see this happens on my screen even when crossing between the other regions that have the same terrain texture layout, but this is the only thing I can think of that might be causing this interesting glitch.
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Maestro Linden
AlettaMondragon Resident: Okay, I see it the terrain mismatch too with Second Life Release 26.2.0.25386466510 between those regions.
This would be a viewer rendering thing, but I suspect it's intended for it to appear this way. The mismatched terrain layer elevation settings (see screenshot) present a similar problem to having adjacent regions with 2 different water height settings.
The viewer can either:
- Render all terrain blends according to the settings of the region the avatar is currently in. Will result in 'pop' when the avatar crosses the border, as shown in the video, but the border blends smoothly as long as the set of textures is the same.
- Render each region's terrain according to its own terrain settings. Would naturally result in a naturally ugly seam at the region border, even when both regions use the same set of textures, but won't have any popping as the avatar crosses.
It would appear that both your viewer and mine (Second Life Release 26.2.0.25386466510 (64bit)) chose option (1), resulting in the popping artifact instead of the seam. I don't have a strong opinion on whether (1) or (2) is preferable, but it's definitely a topic for a viewer rendering report if you're motivated.
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AlettaMondragon Resident
Maestro Linden I am, but I'm not sure what I should be looking for, so I guess first I will have to find a large area with the same layout in all regions (like one of the Bellisseria themes) to make sure nothing like this happens when there is no mismatch. I will try to get to that later.
AlettaMondragon Resident
I built a car test platform in the air at secondlife://Aditi/secondlife/Blake%20Sea%20-%20Thunderer/15/15/502 (same 4 regions where Animats' railroad track is) and started testing the corner crossing with a car. The seabed is not great for ground vehicle testing with all the dunes, so I needed a flat platform.
Out of 100 deliberate corner crossings, the 57th, 67th, 68th and 75th were rough, but they didn't fail eventually. It just looked like the simulator or the viewer had no idea where exactly I should be - same as yesterday.
The 76th crossing failed much more, it unseated me temporarily at 15:34 and sent me flying off the platform and I stopped at secondlife://Aditi/secondlife/Blake%20Sea%20-%20Nelson/195/241/183 when I regained control.
The 87th crossing failed too, at 15:40, but eventually I only lost 3rd person camera position and everything else was fine when I landed in the water in Thunderer.
The 95th crossing was long and rough as well, but it didn't fail.
This means I had 7 problematic corner crossings out of 100, but only 1 of them forced me to have to stand up and sit in my car again, and even that one wasn't a hard failure.
I was driving in mouselook and it was really smooth, but whenever I got out of mouselook, my camera position and 3rd person control inputs were lost. As others mentioned this issue as well, it would be really nice to have these sorted out, too, if possible.
We should still lift our control inputs when crossing, I was playing with this randomly and every time I kept accelerating into the corner, it sent me flying, more or less. None of these attempts resulted in a failure, though, which is impressive. When I lifted as we normally do on every crossing, the corner crossing was very smooth, except the 7 rough ones I mentioned above.
I did this test while Animats and Animatsalt were going round and round with a train on the ground, so I wasn't the only traffic in these regions.
I left my test platform in place up here, I hope it won't be in the way. If anyone wants to use it to test the region corner crossing with cars, bikes, trucks, etc, feel free to.
Pilix Nagy
I've done a fair bit of testing flying one of my planes at full throttle(and it's not a slow plane) around the Blake regions on the Beta server to test the new crossing code.
OVERALL, extremely promising. I barely even notice the normal crossings at all(though this could be due to the more limited nature of the beta grid, being on separate servers with very few people, attachments, scripts, and objects around... probably needs a proper stress test with lots of people at once.)
I turned off the corner crossing script built into my plane(made specifically to deal with the problems of corner crossings), and slammed full speed through a whole bunch of them. Other than the very occasional hitch or visual delay in completing the crossing, no issues at all. Didn't fall out of my plane, or lose it, or end up disconnected. If this new setup proves out and behaves on the live grid as it does here, I dare say the corner crossing scripts in my vehicles may end up being mostly obsolete. So good job on that.
NOW, here's where I DO run into a problem... I had a friend come on to ride as a passenger while I flew around full speed and slammed into the corner crossings.. Firstly, it seems like the sims will refuse to let my craft enter, until my passenger seems to make the crossing. It bounces me off the edge like a void-edge until it recognizes the passenger passing over and lets me through. MOST of the time this only takes a few seconds, when being slow, other times it's smooth and near instant... However, if my passenger crashed(which they did, a couple times as we tested all this), I suddenly end up stuck in the sim I'm in, because the sims can't recognize the passenger passing over, since they're in the process of crashing and not really there... It seems to take a while for this to clear up and finally let me cross into other sims again, at which point it behaves normally. So this COULD be a major issue for anyone carrying passengers, if those passengers then crash, and they end up stuck in the sim for a while...
Hopefully a solution can be found to this passenger crashing issue, but otherwise the rest of it seems very good, very promising. It's just going to need some good stress testing to see how it behaves under a heavy load. And I'm sure I can gather a good handful of other sky pirates to help add bodies for stress testing.. so if/when you're ready to look into that, please do reach out! And good job so far!
Pilix Nagy
One other issue I'll just mention quickly as well, I also took a tallship out to try and sail through some corners on the water, and it seems like the issue of losing controls after a corner crossing still crops up, in vehicles that don't have built in workarounds for control loss...
Not sure what, if anything much can be done to prevent that as well, but thought I'd at least mention it. Seems to go along with other issues of things breaking on corner crossings, like cameras as well. (this is why I build in workarounds for these issues in my vehicles xD)
Hopefully someday this can be figured out too, but safer corner crossings that at least don't crash you or knock you out of a vehicle is a major win for the time being.
AlettaMondragon Resident
Pilix Nagy To me this looks like whatever Pepper did here was to make sure the object and the avatar sitting on it stay in sync and won't begin the second crossing before both the object and the avatar are in the second region after the first crossing. So if this keeps failing consistently with passengers, it might be either that this algorithm is optimized for only 1 avatar sitting on an object, or the difference in ping, script load, etc between the avatars is still an important factor and the avatar with a higher ping or more, heavier scripts will fail. A third option is that link order is a factor, too, but then that points back at the first scenario, that the algorithm focuses on the first avatar sitting on the object.
I can even imagine that being the owner of the vehicle matters. Did you try what happens if you swap and your friend drives or flies and you're the passenger in your own vehicle? It would be very interesting if this were a thing.
As I'm writing this, I'm sitting on Animats' train as a passenger, with him and his alt still all good after passing the corner crossing more than 80 times. This train does a whopping 5-6 mph though, which is far slower than the speed we do on the SLRR (but the tight turns on this test track don't allow more than this), so it looks like speed is an important factor in the failures with passengers, too.
Pilix Nagy
AlettaMondragon Resident Some good points here.. No, we didn't try swapping with my friend controlling the vehicle.. That might be something that needs to be tried out and tested to see how that works out as well. Maybe even let whoever I can grab pilot on their own first, to see how it behaves for them alone as a guest that doesn't own the craft, then I can passenger onto it and see how that works out too.
Another difference to consider between the train and most other vehicles, is I believe most SLRR trains are non-physics based vehicles, which don't use the physics engine to move, they just follow along the tracks. While most boats, planes, cars, etc. tend to use physics to operate. I wonder if there's any major difference in how the two different types of movement would behave with the corner crossings and having passengers etc.
AlettaMondragon Resident
Pilix Nagy You're absolutely right about the difference, it's a good question however which way it affects things. For me, every corner crossing on the SLRR is a disaster, sometimes even if there are about 40 meters between the two crossings, and of course we can't go around the corners there and a very slow speed doesn't help either. On the other hand, sometimes I'm dumb and dash into sim corners on roads with a car, and sometimes the crossing doesn't fail, even if that's very rare.
Physics might actually help with this because of velocity interpolation, while on the SLRR if the guides are about 20m apart and the next one is in the next region, llSetPos zaps you to the next region anyway, and if that guide was actually on the other side of the corner, you get the instant double crossing.
I really don't think I can draw a conclusion without seeing what happens if we send trains down the real SLRR on a straight section full of region corners. We can test aircraft, watercraft and road vehicles here, but unless the Lindens copy 7 more regions to have the Pawpaw - Gluphisia section here for this test, with 2 of the worst SLRR corner crossings that we could hit at high speeds, we'll really have to wait until this gets to the main grid to see if it really fixes things. And of course in that case it will be very easy to find testers, too, because everyone becomes a tester.
Pilix Nagy
AlettaMondragon Resident That's interesting to hear, since the corner crossing script I had a friend make for me, to include in the vehicles I make, actually works by disabling physics in the vehicle when it detects you're about to go into a corner, and then moves the vehicle over into the adjacent corner via non-physical movement, then re-enables physics and you're on your way. I've found it to be extremely reliable in most cases, even making the corner crossings feel almost safer at times than the normal crossings... xD So interesting to hear that you have a different experience with the non-physcial train movement...
AlettaMondragon Resident
Pilix Nagy Maybe it's because of my viewer settings as well that might affect the handling of crossings. Those corner zapper scripts were a disaster to me as well when I tried some, while they seem to work for others.
AlettaMondragon Resident
I tested this with a boat last week and now again with a boat and with an airplane as well. It is really impressive!
Last week it wasn't really smooth, I wasn't unseated and I kept control of the boat the whole time, but I had camera and animation issues during my brief test.
Now I did roughly 100 corner crossings with a boat and then about the same with an airplane (my beta grid inventory is messy so I couldn't attach my trip HUD to count how many crossings I actually did), and
I had no errors or failures at all
.I had a very long crossing once while flying, about 20 seconds, which was very scary, but then I finally regained control and everything was OK. I had a few other weird corner crossings later as well where it seemed like I was already in the third region, but then apparently zapped back to the first, then the second, and back to the third region again (??? - not entirely sure, it was very fast). Knowing what happens on corner crossings on the main grid, these weren't bad at all.
There are a few things however that I'd like to point out:
1: The beta grid is very small with only a few regions.
2: There are only a handful of people logged in here, no constant login-logouts, teleports, chat, etc that put a lot of strain on the login, simulator, IM and other servers which indirectly affect region crossings as well.
3: These Blake Sea regions have nearly no objects and scripts in them, so they are very light.
This means the fact that the results look very promising here doesn't mean this will be the same on the main grid.
There have been examples of this before.If you think this is good enough on the beta grid now, you should roll it out on the main grid to see what happens under real pressure,
BUT be prepared to roll it back immediately if everything breaks
, so we won't have to sit at home for a week.All in all this looks so much better than how corner crossings and single region crossings work on the main grid that I think it can't be a disaster on the main grid either, but we won't know until we try.
AlettaMondragon Resident
Of course after I wrote this, I went for one more flight and did many corner crossings without problems, then I finally had a failure. I was either in Flotsam or Kraken when it happened, then my viewer showed that I was sitting at Blake Sea - Sirens Isle 0,0,0 from 21:09 to 21:11, then it put me at 47,256,6 in the same region. My plane got returned at 21:08:27 according to my inventory, but I got no return notification, so I don't know what its last position was.
AlettaMondragon Resident
I got the return notification when I logged in today:
Your object 'Wacko!' has been returned to your inventory Lost and Found folder from parcel '' at Blake Sea - Sirens Isle 48, 211.
So apparently my airplane has made it into Sirens Isle as well, during the failed crossing, and got returned from here.
animats Resident
I've had a train running around a track loop at Blake Sea - Thunderer for two days now. The track goes right through a region corner, so every 30 seconds, the train and any onboard avatars go through a double region crossing. The train itself is fine. It's been running for two days now. The train has now had about 5,000 successful double region crossings without a failure.
Avatars aren't doing as well. We started with four avatars on the loco, and after two days, all but one has now fallen off and its viewer disconnected. They're all still listed in People->Nearby as seen by the one remaining avatar. I can zoom to them, and some are underground. None will accept an IM. Failures have been seen with several different viewers. The Firestorm instance shown has been logged in for two days, and the screenshot shows what it's seeing.
This is easy to reproduce - just put some avis on the train, and wait.
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Henri Beauchamp
So, I gave a (short) try at Blake Sea regions on Aditi, using a speed boat of mine, with two avatars on board (each running the same viewer but on a different computer).
I tried to reproduce region crossing failures (like crossing a border then crossing it back immediately in opposite direction, or turning round and round at max speed around a 4 sims corner), and I must say I'm impressed at the result (but of course, there were only two avatars in the sims: that would have to be to be checked when many more avatars are around and the sim servers' load is therefore much higher).
However, I found a weird issue with the camera axis (which focus is set by the script via llSetCameraEyeOffset() and llSetCameraAtOffset()) sometimes getting lost when crossing a corner. This could be a race condition in scripts state (de)serializing. I made a short video of it for demonstration: https://sldev.pages-perso.free.fr/misc/BlakeSeaTest1.mkv
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